House Hearing on HHS 2026 Budget Request

Mr. Aderholt (02:55):

… who are pro-life, I'm encouraged by President Trump's tremendous success in getting our nation's border under control, so quickly, and so effectively. The President's success in securing our border directly benefits public health by reducing the incoming flow of illicit drugs like fentanyl, which has fallen by 54% since this time last year, and that's no small thing.

(03:21)
Similarly, the President's border actions have significantly reduced the number of unaccompanied minors being trafficking into our country. I look forward to hearing from the secretary about these efforts as well. I also look forward to learning more about the secretary's plans to reform and reorganize the Department of Health and Human Services. Over the past two years, Secretary Kennedy has spoken eloquently to the American people about the urgent need for healthcare reform. He continued to make the case for reform as he partnered with President Trump to Make America Healthy Again movement.

(03:59)
Last month, the secretary announced a number of structural reform proposals within the Department of Health and Human Services, and its numerous sub-agencies, including the establishment of a new administration For Healthy America. Mr. Secretary, I appreciate the preliminary details of this plan that you have shared with us and I look forward to hearing more this morning.

(04:21)
Congress has also been engaged on the urgent need to reform our healthcare agencies. Last year I was pleased to work with our colleagues on the Energy and the Commerce Committee to initiate reform proposals for NIH, or the National Institute of Health. I'm encouraged to see that the administration is building off of this process by making additional reform proposals at the National Institute of Health. I look forward to hearing more details about that, your proposal, and to continue in a dialogue between the department and the Appropriations Committee as we begin the budget process in earnest.

(05:05)
Mr. Secretary, I'm sure you know all too well, that implementing reforms in Washington is no easy task. However, the president has asked you to take on this weighty challenge and you have accepted that challenge. We here in Congress want to partner with you, bringing our own experience to the table as elected representatives of our communities, we share your goal to make America healthy again, and we look forward this morning to your testimony here today.

(05:34)
And with that, I'd like to turn to our ranking member of the Appropriations Committee, Ms. DeLauro, for any opening remarks that she may have. Ms. DeLauro, you're recognized.

Ms. DeLauro (05:44):

Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman, and thank you for holding what is a very critically important hearing on President Trump's disastrous budget request for the Department of Health and Human Services.

(05:56)
Secretary Kennedy, good morning to you. We welcome you to the House Appropriations Committee for your first budget hearing. However, I cannot thank you for the Trump Administration's budget request to cut funding for important health programs by $33 billion. Quite frankly, I view it as a disgrace. Under your budget proposal, Americans would die of needless and preventable deaths. But before we talk about the request to cut tens of billions of dollars next year, I would like to talk about what is happening right now. The American people are demanding health with the cost of living, but President Trump is not laser-focused on the cost of living crisis. He is actually making it worse. He promised to fight for the working class, but instead put Elon Musk and billionaires in charge of the government, and you, to destroy everything we know about good public health.

(06:50)
Mr. Secretary, this administration is recklessly and unlawfully freezing and stealing congressionally appropriated funds from a wide swath of agencies, programs, and services across the government that serve the American people. And recall that this is a violation of the Constitution. The power of the purse resides with the Congress. It's Article 1, Section 9, Clause 7. Yourself and President Trump and Elon Musk are attacking health programs to pay for tax cuts for billionaires, and by promoting quackery we are endangering the health of the American people, with pseudoscience, fear-mongering and misinformation. Government should fight for the middle class, the working class, and the vulnerable, not the interests of billionaires like Elon Musk.

(07:40)
Instead, with you at the helm, the Trump administration and Republicans in the Congress are destroying the crown jewels of our health system, the National Institutes of Health, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, and the Food and Drug Administration. At the NIH, the world's largest funder of lifesaving biomedical research, you and Elon Musk have fired or driven out nearly 5,000 personnel, including some of the world's most preeminent scientists, frozen billions of dollars in research to develop cures for cancer, Alzheimer's disease, women's health, and the list goes on.

(08:16)
China and Europe are taking advantage of this disaster by recruiting American scientists away from the United States. China wants to overtake us as a global leader in health research and innovation. You and President Trump are aiding and abetting them. Two weeks ago I called a hearing on the cuts to CDC, because the Republican majority is refusing to hold this administration accountable for its wanton destruction. As part of your drastic and haphazard purge of CDC, you and Elon Musk eliminated entire divisions without consideration of what is being lost.

(08:53)
More than 70% of CDC's funding is provided to state and local jurisdictions. These cuts affect families and communities in every one of our districts. These cuts are dangerous. Dr. Peter Marks, the country's top vaccine regulator at the Food and Drug Administration, helped to develop the COVID vaccines at record speed, under the first Trump administration. Dr. Marks was told to resign or be fired. In his resignation letter, Dr. Marks wrote that, "It has become clear that truth and transparency are not desired by the secretary, but rather he wishes subservient confirmation of his misinformation and lies."

(09:38)
Mr. Secretary, Dr. Marks was talking about your misinformation. He was talking about your lies about vaccines. Mr. Secretary, you are gutting the life-saving work of the Department of Health and Human Services, and its key agencies, while the Republicans in this Congress say and do nothing. But the destruction of HHS is not limited to NIH, CDC and the FDA. Mr. Secretary, you are eliminating entire agencies that have saved the lives of someone near and dear to each and every one of us. Because of these cuts, people will die. Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration, SAMHSA, eliminated. Health Resources and Services Administration, HRSA, which as you know, is responsible for ensuring access to healthcare for the uninsured, isolated and vulnerable people, eliminated. The Administration for Strategic Preparedness and Response, ASPR, which was created to prepare for and respond to public health emergencies, eliminated.

(10:39)
The Administration for Community Living, ACL, eliminated, hurting seniors and people with disabilities. You can make the baseless claim that you are simply reorganizing these functions of HHS all you want. It's simply a matter of fact that you cannot cut the department's budget and maintain all of its life-saving programs and services. HHS has closed half of its regional offices, which serve 22 states and five territories. 20,000 HHS employees are gone. And Republicans have set the stage to cut Medicaid benefits from people who rely on that program to see a doctor, including, roughly half, of our nation's children. HHS has terminated more than $12 billion in funding for state and local health departments, including funding for mental health, substance abuse programs, treatment, sabotaging our progress in addressing the opioid crisis.

(11:34)
Mr. Secretary, you are eliminating scores of CDC prevention programs including HIV, tobacco, drowning, asthma, lead poisoning and gun violence. Why on earth are these the places you are terminating for so-called waste? The life of a teenager that does not become addicted to cigarettes or injured by a firearm, is not waste. Last month, you wrote in the New York Post, "America has the highest rates of chronic disease in the world. We rank last in terms of health among developed nations, and life expectancy is declining for many groups of Americans."

(12:18)
Mr. Secretary, much of what you wrote is true, but it is confounding and incomprehensible to then turn around and eliminate the CDC Center for Chronic Disease Prevention and Health Promotion. And with respect, your views on vaccine, quite frankly, I believe you are promoting quackery. Under your watch, our country is now failing to contain vaccine preventable diseases. Measles, a disease eliminated in the United States just decades ago, has now claimed the lives of three Americans, including two children, who died needlessly, and over 1,000 are confirmed to have contracted the disease, all while you peddle unfounded and dangerous vaccine skepticism, spread lies and misinformation about people living with autism.

(13:03)
Vaccine programs for millions of Americans including children, we do that so that they do not get these diseases like measles. This is not a waste. The thousands of experts and experienced staff who help keep Americans safe from global infectious diseases like measles, polio, HIV, tuberculosis, and Ebola, are not waste. These programs help to save the lives of men, women, and children from all walks of life in this country.

(13:29)
And you have decimated the Food and Drug Administration by firing 3,500 employees, taking a wrecking ball to FDA's food safety mandate. You talk about making our food supply healthier, while gutting the support staff for critical inspections of things like baby formula. You talk about closing the generally recognized as safe, or GRAS, loophole, which allows food companies to determine the safety of their own ingredients, something that I have advocated for years, but while firing staff in charge of food and chemical reassessment. The former deputy commissioner of the Human Foods program resigned in February writing, "I was looking forward to working to pursue the department's agenda of improving the health of Americans by reducing diet related chronic disease and risks from chemicals in food. It has been increasingly clear that with the Trump administration's disdain for the very people necessary to implement your agenda, however, it would have been fruitless for me to continue in this role."

(14:35)
That's a damning indictment of your work on food safety. I'm worried. I'm worried about a future public health crisis that emerges once the Trump administration has fully dismantled the nation's public health system. We are currently in the midst of an outbreak of avian influenza, and this administration is woefully unprepared to protect Americans, and mitigate its impacts if it transforms to be transmittable from person to person. This is all happening today, right now. We are not talking about hypotheticals, or what-ifs, or worst-case scenarios, this destruction has happened and is happening today right now. Even though we received President Trump's concept of a budget plan on Friday, we are now into May without a real budget from the White House.

(15:25)
Mr. Secretary, in the budget outline, you are asking Congress to cut funding for health programs by $33 billion, a cut of more than 25%. You are asking Congress to cut CDC by nearly $4 billion, NIH research by $18 billion, and you claim to be reorganizing NIH. Any reorganizing of NIH must go through the Congress. We need to hold public hearings, engage in a thoughtful process to incorporate the best ideas, to advance NIH as a crown jewel of biomedical research. Mr. Secretary, you have no lawful authority to undertake this by yourself. These are vital institutions built up over decades that protect Americans health and the health of people around the world.

(16:13)
I do not believe the American people want less cancer research, fewer people tracking infectious diseases, but that is exactly what this budget will deliver. We are in the middle of a cost-of-living crisis, driven in part by skyrocketing healthcare costs, and you and Elon Musk and President Trump are making it worse. You are wreaking havoc at every level of our most critical health institutions. You are jeopardizing our family's health for the sake of billionaire tax cuts. But we are seeing pushback at every level. The public is outraged at the enormous harms you have wrought. Dozens of courts have put restraining orders on the administration's actions, but the courts can only play defense. Republicans in this Congress could stop the mayhem, the chaos, and the destruction today, if they had the courage. But they remain silent, petrified of the president's scorn, revenge, and retaliation.

(17:07)
Those of us who serve in elected office, we are blessed and we have the power to do something. We know what's right and we know what's wrong and we understand the harm being wrought on the American people. We need to stand up, not be afraid. This is the time to meet the moment. As the top Democrat on the Appropriations Committee, I will never stop fighting against this dangerous dismantling of health and human services, and its agencies, which is jeopardizing the health, the safety, and the well-being of millions of America's families.

(17:43)
Thank you. I look forward to your testimony and to the important conversations we will have this hearing this morning. I yield back, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Aderholt (17:54):

All right, Mr. Secretary, we look forward to your open remarks. You're now recognized. Of course your written statement will be included for the record, but you have the floor and we look forward to your testimony.

Secretary Robert Kennedy (18:10):

[inaudible 00:18:10] you Ranking Member DeLauro, and members of the committee, I'm honored to appear before you today to present the Department of Health and Human Services, fiscal year 2026 budget.

(18:21)
Debilitating disease, contaminated food, toxic environments, addiction, mental health, illness affect families across every race, class, and political belief. When my team and I took the helm at HHS, we set out with clear goals. First, we aim to make America healthy again with a special focus on the chronic disease epidemic.

(18:46)
Second, we committed to delivering more efficient, responsive, and effective services to the over 100 million Americans who will rely on Medicare, Medicaid, and other programs.

(18:58)
Third, we focused on achieving these goals while cutting costs to taxpayers. We intend to do more, a lot more, with less. The budget I'm presenting today supports these goals and reflects two enduring American values, compassion and responsibility. I invite the committee to unite around these ideals with me. The United States remains the sickest developed nation and we spend $4.5 trillion annually on healthcare, two to three times more per capita than comparable nations. Clearly, something is structurally and systemically wrong with our approach. Furthermore, healthcare costs are steadily increasing at a rate 2% greater than the economy. If we don't staunch this unsustainable hemorrhage, we will ransom our children to bankruptcy, servitude and disastrous health consequences. Yes, and exploding debt is a social determinant of health.

(20:03)
We won't solve this problem by throwing more money at it. We must spend smarter. We will shift funding away from bureaucracy toward direct impact. Some things that HHS will not change, we will preserve legacy programs like Medicare, Medicaid, and Head Start as the foundation of the MAHA agenda. Vulnerable populations, seniors, and veterans deserve consistent access to care and I will ensure that they receive it. Today, 83 million Americans, urban and rural, lack adequate access to primary care physicians. We will prioritize these families, especially Native Americans and Alaskan communities. We will protect IHS funding, streamline its operations and give the tribes more autonomy for managing their resources.

(20:54)
Let me be clear, we intend to make the Trump HHS, not just the most effective, but also the most compassionate in US history. Our official budget statement outlines many priorities, but I will highlight a few.

(21:09)
First, we will consolidate programs to better tackle mental health and addiction. These issues now rival chronic disease and their impact. HHS will aggressively combat the opioid crisis, especially the spread of synthetic drugs like fentanyl. We will empower state, local and tribal leaders to create effective solutions.

(21:32)
Second, we will address nutrition, physical activity and healthy lifestyles. The president's budget requests $94 billion in discretionary funds to support these priorities, including the Administration for Healthy America. We will emphasize healthy eating and Head Start and ensure the program continues to serve its 750,000 children, and parents, effectively.

(21:56)
Third, we will equip the FDA to expand its food safety efforts through research, regulations, independence, and education, to remove harmful chemicals from food and packaging, and we are already doing this more aggressively than any other administration in history. We will fund cutting-edge research at the NIH, while cutting risky or non-essential services. That includes ending of gain-of-function experiments and research based upon radical gender ideology. At the CDC, we'll return to its core missions tracking disease, investigating outbreaks, and sustaining public health's infrastructure, while cutting waste. And I'll add, in response to your critique about the measles, we are doing a better job at CDC today than any nation in the world in controlling this measles outbreak, and I'm happy to elaborate on that afterward.

(22:55)
Fifth, we will eliminate DEI funding and redirect resources toward real poverty reduction. We will move beyond lip service to communities of color and take meaningful action to meet their needs.

(23:10)
Sixth, we will strengthen cybersecurity and health IT. The AI revolution has arrived and we are already using these new technologies to manage healthcare data more efficiently and securely.

(23:25)
Finally, we will rebuild public trust. Trust that eroded through years of industry capture, corruption, waste and misplaced priorities, including by some of the gentlemen that you just mentioned, ranking member. We will launch a new era of transparency in public service, creating an honest science-driven HHS that answers to the President, to Congress, and to the American people. I look forward to working with Congress to pursue this mission together as a bipartisan cause. Let's work side by side to make America healthy again.

Mr. Aderholt (24:07):

Thank you-

Mr. Hoyer (24:07):

Mr. Chairman?

Mr. Aderholt (24:07):

Yes sir?

Mr. Hoyer (24:09):

We have another committee meeting of which I'm the ranking member. I will be back, but I didn't want [inaudible 00:24:15] walking out.

Mr. Aderholt (24:17):

Duly noted.

Secretary Robert Kennedy (24:18):

I welcome your absence, Congressman Hoyer.

Mr. Hoyer (24:24):

I'll be back.

Mr. Aderholt (24:26):

All right, thank you, Mr. Secretary. I will begin. I mentioned in my open remarks that I appreciate your commitment upholding the sanctity human life. In your capacity as the Secretary of Health and Human Services, the pro-life community was deeply concerned by numerous actions that was taken during the Biden administration that undermined the right to life and the conscience of rights of pro-life Americans.

(24:56)
For example, the Center for Disease Control revealed at the end of the Biden administration that the CDC funded nurses in Mozambique were performing abortions that violated the Helms Act, which prohibits US foreign aid from funding abortions. In addition to that, the Biden administration punished states by denying them Title X funding for refusing to provide abortion counseling in violation of state law. Can you talk to us for a couple of minutes, or whatever, about steps that you see the department are now taking to protect the right to life and the conscience rights of pro-life medical providers and also medical students?

Secretary Robert Kennedy (25:40):

Yes, Mr. Chairman, every abortion is a tragedy. I don't believe that our nation can live up to its role as a moral authority around the globe when we have hundreds of thousands, if not million abortions, per year in our country. And under President Trump's leadership, I have ended federal funding to the kind of the programs … overseas programs that fund abortions or counsel abortions, and we have withheld the Title X funding from NGOs that refuse to differentiate the funding streams so that the federal government and my agency can't tell whether money that is being sent to that agency is being used for legitimate family planning issues, or it's being used to counsel or fund abortion.

(26:40)
And we have said that as soon as they differentiate that we would begin re-funding them. I think at this point the administration is now fed up with that, and the budget that is proposed by OMB, is a budget that cuts out Title X funding, because they don't believe that these NGOs can actually, in good faith, comply with the law and with the EOs.

Mr. Aderholt (27:13):

Thank you. Well, I appreciate that, and like I said, I appreciate your commitment to that, for the president's vision. One of the most significant challenges facing rural hospitals is the Area Wage Index, which is used of course by the Center for Medicare and Medicaid Services. And as you know, under the reimbursement formula used by CMS, mandates that the Area Wage Index remain budget neutral, and high wage hospitals receive a higher reimbursement rates, whereas low wage hospitals receive a lower reimbursement rate.

(27:54)
This system has the perverse result of preventing low wage hospitals, many of which are in rural areas, and underserved communities, from paying higher wages. By keeping these hospitals at the lower end of the wage spectrum, they cannot compete against higher paying hospitals, increasing their risk of closure, which I referred to earlier, and locking them into a downward spiral. During the first Trump administration, CMS attempted to address the disparity. However, the Biden administration did not successfully defend the policy when it came to the courts. Therefore, rural hospitals, again, confront this downward spiral of the CMS Area Wage Index.

(28:42)
Can you tell us if CMS has taken any steps, under your leadership, to review the impact of the Area Wage Index on rural hospitals, and can I get your commitment to work with me and, of course, with Administrator Oz on a solution

Mr. Aderholt (29:00):

… to this very critical problem that's affecting so many rural hospitals.

Secretary Robert Kennedy (29:04):

Yes, Mr. Chairman. As you point out, the Trump administration initially tried to address this disparity, which is destroying rural healthcare. And as you know, many of these rural hospitals not only provide critical access to care. Without them, patients would have to drive sometimes hours to get to an emergency room. They're absolutely critical in those regions, but there are also important economic drivers for many of those regions, and institutions that provide cohesion to those communities. Oh, if we want to preserve rural America as a livable space with dignity and Richmond prosperity and good health that they deserve, we need to keep those hospitals and those treatment institutions in good shape, in good financial. We need to keep them financially viable.

(30:08)
The initial Trump administration 2016 to 2020 tried to do that, unfortunately, as to redress those disparities. Unfortunately, as you know, as you pointed out, the Biden administration did not robustly respond to a court challenge, and we got a very bad decision from that. I've said that my agency has no power to redress this disparity. But I pledge to work with you and with Congress. The change has to be statutory. And we will do our job at providing technical support, including the kind of studies that you just mentioned that show how badly this disparity is wounding rural America.

Mr. Aderholt (30:59):

Yeah. Well, thank you. And like I said, someone who represents rural state, it is certainly, I hear about it almost every day, or very frequently. So, I appreciate your commitment to that. But that let me recognize the ranking member, Ms. DeLauro.

Ms. DeLauro (31:14):

Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. Let me just one area of correction which has to do with the measles issue, Mr. Secretary. You keep comparing the US to other countries. He compared us to Europe. But the Europe you are referring to is the WHO European region, has 53 countries in Europe and in Asia, including those with low vaccination rates like Romania that has never eliminated measles. If you compare us to Western Europe countries that we often compare ourselves to like Great Britain, they have seen no measles death this year.

(31:46)
Let me move to the NIH. In your testimony, you say you want to quote, and I quote. "Rescale our biomedical research budget." Excuse me, but that's BS. You are not rescaling NIH research. You are proposing to cut it by $20 billion. And according to our colleagues in the Senate, NIH has effectively cut research funding by $2.7 billion this year in comparison to the same period last year. That's a cut of 35% during that period. That includes cutting cancer research by 31%. This is the report put out by the Senate. Trump's War on Science, which goes into detail about how we are in fact dealing with cutting scientific research.

(32:33)
Mr. Secretary, are you freezing or withholding funding that Congress appropriated in 2025 for life-saving NIH research?

Secretary Robert Kennedy (32:44):

Let me address your first issue, because I want to correct you. We have about 1100 measles cases in this country. The growth rate last year was 15 additional. Mexico has roughly the same number with a third of our population, and they got 300 extra cases last week. Canada has more measles, 1500. They have 1/8 of our population. Your Western Europe has about 6,000, which is 10 times the number that we have. Oh, you are wrong about what you said earlier.

Ms. DeLauro (33:24):

We can discuss that, but I think one has to consider whether or not we are dealing with decades of data proving how effective and safe the measles vaccine is. I want to move to that. I want my questions answered on, are you freezing and withholding funding that Congress appropriated in 2025 for life-saving NIH research?

Secretary Robert Kennedy (33:45):

We are not withholding any funding for life-saving research.

Ms. DeLauro (33:50):

Okay. Do you commit to following the law?

Secretary Robert Kennedy (33:52):

Of course.

Ms. DeLauro (33:52):

Are you fully obligating funding that Congress appropriated, we appropriated it is the law of the land for NIH research, and to obligate those funds by September 30th of this year? Or are you planning to break the law by impounding congressionally appropriated funds?

Secretary Robert Kennedy (34:11):

If you appropriate me the funds, I'm going to spend them.

Ms. DeLauro (34:15):

We have. In the bill you are cutting the NIH by $18 billion, or you're proposing to cut it by $20 billion. The Congress appropriated those funds, it passed into law, it's part of the 2024 budget, and we are under a continuing resolution that has adopted the 2024 numbers. How then can you justify cutting $20 billion from the biomedical research budget?

Secretary Robert Kennedy (34:42):

If you appropriate the money to me, I'm going to spend that.

Ms. DeLauro (34:46):

We have appropriated, Mr. Secretary.

Secretary Robert Kennedy (34:49):

Correct. Then I'm going to spend it.

Ms. DeLauro (34:49):

Then you're going to spend. You're not going to cut $20 billion from the NIH.

Secretary Robert Kennedy (34:54):

The White House proposal is to do very, very large cuts at NIH.

Ms. DeLauro (34:59):

Well, that is contrary to the money appropriated.

Secretary Robert Kennedy (35:04):

Ranking member.

Ms. DeLauro (35:05):

Yes.

Secretary Robert Kennedy (35:05):

If Congress appropriates and made the money, I'm going to spend the money. You have the power of the purse here.

Ms. DeLauro (35:12):

Thank you.

Secretary Robert Kennedy (35:12):

I'm sure you know that.

Ms. DeLauro (35:13):

Thank you for reiterating that, but I think that, I'm not sure the administration really has internalized that, particularly Mr. Vought hasn't internalized that when he says that we can in fact impound money. The money is there, the 2024 budget includes the funding for the NIH. Will you commit to spending the money that is in 2024 in that budget?

Secretary Robert Kennedy (35:34):

As I said, ranking member, if you appropriate the money, I'm going to spend that money.

Ms. DeLauro (35:40):

The money has been appropriated, so the answer to that is, you're not willing to accept the funds that have been lawfully voted by members of the House and Senate on the money for the National Institutes of Health. We're going to hold you to your word that that funding is there. It should be transferred from 24 to 25, and you've cut already $20 billion. Let's get that money back. Let's get that money back. You have an obligation to carry out the law and to implement what the Congress has done.

(36:17)
Unbelievable. Unbelievable. Chronic disease and tobacco. Tobacco use is a major contributor to chronic disease, and there's a leading preventable cause of death in our nation each year, killing nearly 500, 000 Americans, costing the nation nearly 250 billion in healthcare costs. CDC's tips from former smokers media campaign alone is estimated to have saved more than 7 billion in healthcare costs by helping more than 1 million smokers quit. Why did you eliminate CDC's Office of Smoking and Health, an office that reduces the number of kids using tobacco products, helps audit tobacco users to quit, and saves taxpayers dollars?

Secretary Robert Kennedy (36:59):

We have under the reorganization, and I'm going to talk very, very broadly, because as of four o'clock yesterday afternoon, we are under a court order not to do any further planning on the reorganization. And I've been advised by my attorneys and not to talk about it. But I will just say broadly, many of the programs that the Democrats are now saying we're cut at CDC, were not cut at all. Those programs were transferred to the administration for Healthy America. But I'm not allowed, I'm not permitted to talk in any more detail.

Ms. DeLauro (37:40):

Fine.

Secretary Robert Kennedy (37:40):

Because of a court order.

Ms. DeLauro (37:42):

We're just dealing with words. You transfer it here, there's less money overall for the agency, therefore there's less money for the programs. Both 2024, 2025, Congress, again, power of the purse resides here, appropriated $246 million for CDC's tobacco prevention programs. Do you commit to following the law again fully obligating those funds so that we can help adults who want to quit using tobacco and prevent teens from becoming addicted?

Secretary Robert Kennedy (38:10):

Allow me to answer that by pointing out the absolute cataclysmic disorganization of this agency under your oversight for 40 years. They were nine separate offices of women's health. When we consolidate them, the Democrats say we're eliminating them. We're not. We're still appropriating the 3.7 billion, but we're not keeping all nine. We had eight separate offices for minority health. We eliminated one. We had 27 HIV offices.

Ms. DeLauro (38:46):

Okay, let me just… I'm going to jump-

Secretary Robert Kennedy (38:47):

We had 59 behavioral host program.

Ms. DeLauro (38:50):

Chair [inaudible 00:38:50], I'm well over time, if you could just get us what has been eliminated, why you're doing it, and the criteria by which the elimination has occurred. That is information that this committee needs in order to be able to do our job in terms of appropriating funds. Thank you.

Secretary Robert Kennedy (39:05):

Gladly provide that to you, but right now we're under a court order that prohibits us from doing so.

Mr. Aderholt (39:12):

Okay. Before we go on, I just want to say we also need to make sure that we bear in mind that the secretary is here talking about FY-26 funding, so he is committed to that. So, I just want to make sure that we're all clear. We're talking about FY-26 on this. Mr. Simpson.

Mr. Simpson (39:31):

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. And thank you, Secretary, for being here, and thanks for taking on what is a huge task. You've done that before in your history, and I look forward to most of the people I talk to are in favor of MAHA, in making America healthy again. I agree with a lot of the things you've said. Some of the things I question, want to see more studies on. And there's probably a couple in there that I might disagree with, but that's okay. Opening this debate of how we can make America healthy again is very important.

(40:03)
Let me ask a couple questions. I chair the Interior Committee that funds Indian Health Services, which is in your department. I noticed in your opening statement you want to maintain the level of funding for Indian Health Services to keep the promises that we've made to our Native American Alaska Natives. That's not just a promise, that's a legal obligation we have with those, those are treaty rights. So we've been doing a great deal in my bill increasing funding for Indian Health Services. We also did something that was called forward appropriation, so that they have appropriated a year in advance, because we found that during shutdowns and those kinds of things, they weren't protected like other health organizations were and stuff. Your skinny budget, and I haven't seen your full budget yet, do you maintain that forward appropriation for Indian Health Services?

Secretary Robert Kennedy (40:56):

Yes, Congressman, I want to point out. I spend 20% of my career working on tribal issues, on representing the tribes, and treating negotiations, and litigation against big polluters in the extractive industry and others. I was one of the founding editors of Indian Country Today, which is the largest Indian newspaper in Indian country. And it's been an issue that I'm committed to my whole life. I fought successfully to exempt the Indian Health Service from the probationary freezes from the fork in the road, the early retirement from the rifts, and from all of the downsizing. And I also made an opportunity that people at my agency who lost their jobs in other parts of the agency from the rifts, etc, could transfer to Indian Health Service, because Indian Health Service is chronically understaffed, it's very, very difficult to find competent personnel who will move to Indian country or to distant locations.

(42:10)
I'm committed to protecting it, I'm committed to working with you to make sure that we can finally make this work or population that is not only probably among the most aggrieved in our history, but also a population that suffers more from chronic disease that has the shortest lifespan, the highest rates of diabetes, the highest rates of alcoholism of any other population. And one of my big priorities will be getting good food, high-quality food, and traditional foods onto the reservation, because processed food American Indians is poison.

Mr. Simpson (42:49):

Yep. They're finding that the way to attack diabetes on reservations was have the highest rate is by going back to their traditional foods.

Secretary Robert Kennedy (42:58):

Yeah, I mean, I'll say one thing. The Pima Indians were blue-zoned in Arizona, the longest-lived people on the continent. Today, they're among the shortest-lived. I think their life span is around 47 years old. The highest rate of diabetes, second in the world. About 80% of adults are diabetic, have chronic obesity. Right across the border in Mexico, there are Pima Indians who are still long-lived, have no diabetes, no heart disease, no obesity, because they're not being fed ultra-processed food. Ultra-processed food is a genocide on the American Indian, and we have to end it.

Mr. Simpson (43:37):

Yeah, I agree. One other subject that I want to talk about is the reorganization of NIH into fewer institutes. There are some institutes that are concerned that they're going to be left out of this reorganization. The division of Oral Health at the CDC is concerned about the lack of focus on oral health. Will you commit that preserving the congressionally appropriated funding and upholding the autonomy of the National Institutes of Dental Craniofacial Research and other institutes until Congress completes a thorough review of the NIH restructuring?

Secretary Robert Kennedy (44:16):

I don't know what the OMB budget says about dental health, but I can tell you that I am deeply committed to dental health. There are so much new science out there that shows how dental health is intricately related to health in the rest of the body, to the microbiome, to the brain health. And we want to do those studies to make sure that we understand that and we need to make a big commitment to dental health.

Mr. Simpson (44:48):

I appreciate that, and I look forward to working with you on that, and making sure that most diseases can actually express themselves in the oral cavity first.

Secretary Robert Kennedy (44:57):

Yes.

Mr. Simpson (44:57):

It can be detected there. I am concerned about the fluoride issue. I've seen the benefits having been a practicing dentist for 22 years. I just noticed this morning that the FDA brings action to remove ingestible fluoride prescription drug products for children from the market. And as I'm reading through this, I want to see some of these studies, but it says, "The best way to prevent cavities in children is by avoiding excessive sugar intake and good dental hygiene," obvious. And it says, "For the same reason that fluoride may kill bacteria on teeth, it may also kill intestinal bacteria important to children's health." I would tell you, you don't prevent cavities by fluoride killing the bacteria in the mouth. What it does is make the enamel more resistant to decay. So I want to see the studies on this, and where we're headed with this. And I will tell you that if you are successful in banning fluoride, I noticed you graduated Utah and Florida, I think, for banning it, that's up to them, they can do what they want. But we better put a lot more money into dental education, because we're going to need a whole lot more dentists.

Secretary Robert Kennedy (45:59):

I think that Marty McCary's concern with ingestible fluoride is that the emerging science shows the benefits a fluoride to cares and to cavity prevention comes from topical exposures, rather than it was once thought that it was systemic, that if you ingested it, that the benefit came from that. We now know that firstly all the benefit is from topical, and we can get that through mouth washers, we can get through fluoridated toothpaste. The National Toxicity Program issued a report in August, a meta review of all the science that now exists on fluoride, and showed a direct inverse correlation between fluoride exposure, dose-related, and lower IQ, is an issue that we have to all be concerned with. We want high IQ kids right now.

Mr. Aderholt (46:50):

Mr. Hoyer.

Mr. Simpson (46:52):

I appreciate that. I look forward to working with you on it.

Secretary Robert Kennedy (46:54):

Okay.

Mr. Hoyer (46:56):

As promised, I returned. Me and MacArthur. I'm not going to ask questions about specific issues about which I'm very concerned. I subscribe frankly to the remarks that Mr. Horo, our ranking member made, however, Mr. Secretary, with reference to my concerns about what is happening. First of all, let me ask you this. You submit a budget, it goes to OMB, the present will submit it to us. And Congress passes a budget, sends it to the president, presumably the president signs it. Once that happens, do you consider that budget and that Congress passes to be a suggestion, or directive?

Secretary Robert Kennedy (47:42):

Well, as far as I'm concerned, it's the president's budget, and my duty is to defend it. It's Congress's choice about whether or not they're going to fund. Congress appropriates the funding. Listen, no, Congressman, there's no agency head that I know of that wants to see his agency gutted or his budget lowered. There's tremendous ways in my agency, it grew by 38% during the Biden administration and public health went down.

Mr. Hoyer (48:16):

Okay, I got five minutes.

Secretary Robert Kennedy (48:17):

Right. But I just say this, president Trump, as a broader vision than me, which is that the $2 trillion we're spending a year that we don't have is landing on our children. That is a health crisis for them.

Mr. Hoyer (48:30):

Mr. Secretary, my question to you respectfully was, do you believe it is suggestion, or a mandate? This is a very important issue, which we differ greatly with the administration and with Mr. Musk, that willy-nilly without Congress's approval they can remove things, take things away, defund things, fire people. That is not my proposition. I want to know whether it is your proposition. You've answered in the sense that once the budget is adopted you need to carry it out. Now, whether that was President Trump that signed that budget, or President Biden that signed that budget, I presume your premise is the same. Is that correct?

Secretary Robert Kennedy (49:12):

I mean, I don't know. I think you're asking me a rhetorical question because I think it's self-evident.

Mr. Hoyer (49:17):

No, it's not a rhetorical question. It's whether or not you think once the Congress says, "We're going to spend X number of dollars on X objective, Y objective," that you will follow that.

Secretary Robert Kennedy (49:26):

Yes.

Mr. Hoyer (49:27):

Okay. That's the answer I wanted.

Secretary Robert Kennedy (49:32):

Incidentally, that happens throughout history, a Republican…

Mr. Hoyer (49:37):

Throughout history, Mr. Secretary, with all due respect, you and I know this, Mr. Nixon said that was not the law. That he could take whatever we, and he took it as a suggestion. And he wanted to impound. And he did impound in the early 70s. And we passed an act that said, "You can't do that." Then the Supreme Court heard that case, and very frankly, one of the most conservative judges, Justice Scalia, said President Nixon, the Mahatma Gandhi, of all impounders, asserted at a press conference in 1973 that his constitutional right to impound appropriated funds was absolutely clear. Scalia went on to say, "Our decision two years later in trained versus City of New York proved him wrong." That opinion has been reiterated by the Supreme Court subsequent to that decision.

(50:34)
This is a critically important issue, because there are conflicting opinions, we will try to come to consensus on that. The president has to sign the budget, unless we override his veto of the budget. That becomes the law. We think, and a lot of courts over the last two months have decided, that that law is not being followed. So that was my point.

(50:57)
Now, let me ask you something. You've reduced the department by 20,000 people, as I understand it. You've been quoted as saying some of those firings were mistakes. In fact, of course, Musk fired 70% of the people when he bought Twitter, and then brought a large number of them back because he found out, as you had pointed out, not that with respect to that, but respect to these 20,000 people, there were mistakes. My question to you is, have you had an analysis prior to making those decisions, or Mr. Musk making those decisions? And I ask you first, who made those decisions? You or Musk?

Secretary Robert Kennedy (51:37):

They were made, I mean, ultimately we executed the decisions behind-

Mr. Hoyer (51:42):

I know you executed them, but my question is-

Secretary Robert Kennedy (51:44):

Elon Musk gave us help in figuring out where there was ways fraud and abuse in the department, but it was up to me to make the decision, and there are many instances where I pushed back and said, "We don't want to. That would hurt us to eliminate that group."

Mr. Hoyer (52:02):

Let me ask you a question based upon that response. Was there an analysis of the consequences of these cuts and the reduction in force and elimination of programs? Was there analysis that you can provide the committee that indicated those, as you concluded in your statement, would not harm people, would not undermine, frankly, the people who are being served, the healthcare not delivered, people not served, children not educated, research not accomplished, frankly, lives not saved? Is there an analysis that you can provide to this committee prior to us determining the budget that will show that in fact those cuts will not be harmful to those objectives?

Secretary Robert Kennedy (52:48):

Yeah. I mean, there were analysis. The simplest analysis was at the outset, the analysis that we're spending $2 trillion a year that we don't have.

Mr. Hoyer (52:58):

Mr. Musk said he was going to cut $2 trillion.

Secretary Robert Kennedy (52:59):

At some point we were spending $ 2 trillion more than you have, you have to make cuts. The other analysis, that was more detailed-

Mr. Hoyer (53:07):

Is that children or the Indians that you're so concerned about?

Secretary Robert Kennedy (53:10):

We didn't cut the Indians. We didn't cut the Indian services.

Mr. Hoyer (53:10):

I understand. I'm asking you. You're saying you have to cut-

Secretary Robert Kennedy (53:15):

I made sure that those services were not cut. I made sure that head start was not cut. But the cuts that were done were cuts that were to duplication, to redundancy, to streamlining. We increased our workforce 70% four years, so we were going back to the 2019 levels.

Mr. Hoyer (53:39):

Mr. Reagan said he was going to cut waste, fraud and abuse. He increased the budget deficit by 189%, the highest of any president in history.

Mr. Aderholt (53:52):

We allotted five minutes, and I am trying to be lenient, instead of cutting some off in mid-senates. But if y'all could be respectful to me so that we can sort of wrap up when I start tapping. So anyway, let me recognize Mr. Fleischmann.

Mr. Fleischmann (54:09):

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Secretary, good morning. I'm Chuck Fleischmann, I represent the third district of Tennessee, that's East Tennessee Chattanooga Oak Ridge. I want to thank you for stepping up in this important role and serving our great president, president Trump, in all of your endeavors.

(54:26)
I want to begin with a thank you, because I'm going to have some questions later about some other issues. But thanking you for the Center for Medicare and Medicaid Innovation under HHS. What it does with Oak Ridge, which was the birthplace of the Manhattan Project, Oak Ridge National Laboratory in my district, it works to make sure that the Energy Employee Occupational Illness Compensation Program at the Department of Energy is run well, and it is. This keeps our hard-working civilian employees insured and cared for long after their years of service. So that's a profound thank you to you and yours for running that so well.

(55:12)
Mr. Secretary, I'm going to talk a little bit about the Food and Drug Administration. That is under my dear colleague and friend Andy Harris's jurisdiction. I chair energy and water. But while I have you here, Mr. Secretary, I know the FDA has taken significant steps to ban or phase out synthetic food colorings over the years, and I respect that. The current colors, though Mr. Secretary, that are used and have been approved by FDA, have deemed safe for many years. Candidly, I represent many snack manufacturers, I'm a big fan of the oatmeal cream pie, and in many ways I have M& Ms in my district, I know you're going to come and visit me in a couple of weeks. We can all have some M&Ms, and little Debbies together.

(56:09)
But on a very serious note, we want to make sure that FDA has done due diligence to ensure the safety of these replacement colors. Will you work with me on that? Because candidly, I think these dyes are safe, they've been approved, but really trying to find substitutes, the costs. We've seen estimates five to 10 times try to fix that. Will you work with me on that, sir?

Secretary Robert Kennedy (56:33):

Absolutely, Congressman. And one of the, I think, the really important accomplishments that we've done over the past 100 days is we've been working with the food industry. And we found the food industry very, very receptive. We think we have good science that links almost all of these dyes with ADHD, with neurological injury, with cancer. And they've agreed to phase out the two worst of them, which is orange B and red citrus number three, within two months, and then the other seven dyes within two years. And some of the food companies like Tyson Food have already eliminated them because of our talks. They asked us to do one thing. They said, "Can we try to fast track the vegetable dye substitutes that we need?" And we have fast tracked those, and we've already got them approved. So we have three dyes approved this week that are substitute dyes that can be used by the food industry. And we're going to continue to respond to the needs of the food industry, we're going to continue to work with them, and I'm happy to work with you, Congressman.

Mr. Fleischmann (57:50):

And I thank you. I thank you for your question and your answering, your response. Mr. Secretary, I wanted to talk with you about this subcommittee's oversight of the 340B Drug Discount

Mr. Fleischmann (58:00):

… program. I'm a strong supporter of that. I have hospitals in my district. It provides funding to safety net community health centers, hospitals and other healthcare providers with discounts from prescription drug sales. CHCs and rural hospitals across Tennessee have become dependent upon this program. Just a question, sir. We've heard that this department will move oversight from HRSA to CMS. Can you either confirm or deny that, sir?

Secretary Robert Kennedy (58:30):

I can't because the court order, but I can tell you the 340B program, as you know, it's not a straightforward program because it was originally intended for a hundred institutions that were serving very poor communities. It's now grown to 27,000 institutions. The patients themselves seldom got the benefits of the drug reduction. And actually a hundred thousand, if you look at all the kind of satellite institutions. But we also recognize that it is the lifeblood of rural hospitals right now, so we can't mess with that program without giving those rural hospitals something else that is going to support them and we understand that.

Mr. Fleischmann (59:19):

Thank you, Mr. Secretary.

Secretary Robert Kennedy (59:20):

I can tell you that drug companies are worried because if we do what President Trump wants, which is through a compliance with executive order to go to most favored nation, it will lower the price of all drugs, which means it will further lower the cost of 340B drugs, and they consider that existential. So that is a problem that we all need to work out together.

Mr. Aderholt (59:44):

Mr. Pocan.

Mark Pocan (59:46):

Thank you Mr. Chairman and thank you Mr. Secretary. I'm Mark Pocan. I represent the 2nd congressional district in Wisconsin. All are part of five, or I'm sorry, six counties in south central Wisconsin. I don't know you and I think it's important to have a good working relationship with you because of everything that you have … there's a lot of jurisdiction. You've definitely got your hands full with a lot. Some things I think we agree on and some things I'm not sure if we do, so I'm really trying to explore a little bit of that. I think some things that we agree on, and you brought it up, you want to have a special focus on chronic disease, correct?

Secretary Robert Kennedy (01:00:21):

Yes.

Mark Pocan (01:00:22):

Yeah, great. And one that maybe Chuck and I disagree a little bit on, but I support what you're doing on ultra-processed foods, on food dyes and other junk chemicals and promoting healthier diets. That's another focus, correct?

Secretary Robert Kennedy (01:00:34):

Yes.

Mark Pocan (01:00:35):

And also I think you're supporting and making it easier to access non-pharmaceutical, in other words, natural remedies as part of a person's healthcare decision?

Secretary Robert Kennedy (01:00:43):

Yes.

Mark Pocan (01:00:44):

And one I didn't have on the list, but I heard you tell Mr. Simpson on dental care, I have a constituent who because of a infection with a tooth, is now getting meals on wheels and his health is destroyed. So I appreciate that as well.

Secretary Robert Kennedy (01:00:55):

Yes.

Mark Pocan (01:00:56):

So in trying to get to know you, there's some public things that make you somewhat of a conundrum to people like me. Just trying to understand. One is on vaccines and I don't want to ask you about all the specific theories on vaccines, but something that might be helpful. As you've previously said, you've vaccinated your children. Just because I think this is a helpful answer and this isn't a gotcha, I promise. If you had a child today, would you vaccinate that child for measles?

Secretary Robert Kennedy (01:01:22):

For measles? Probably for measles. What I would say is my opinions about vaccines are irrelevant. I have directed Jay Bhattacharya.

Mark Pocan (01:01:37):

Sure. Like I said, I don't want to-

Secretary Robert Kennedy (01:01:39):

… so that everybody can make that decision, but I don't want to seem like I'm being evasive, but I don't think people should be taking advice, medical advice from me.

Mark Pocan (01:01:49):

Right. No, I got that. And I'm not asking you to give them medical advice, but would you vaccinate your child for measles?

Secretary Robert Kennedy (01:01:54):

I think if I answer that question directly that it will seem like I'm giving advice to other people and I don't want to be doing that. I want people to make-

Mark Pocan (01:02:02):

Okay, but that's kind of your jurisdiction because CDC does give advice. Right? I'm not trying to do it as a Gotcha. I was just going to-

Secretary Robert Kennedy (01:02:08):

Yeah. What I think what we're going to try to do is to lay out the pros and cons, the risks and benefits accurately as we understand them with replicable studies.

Mark Pocan (01:02:20):

Can you talk about chickenpox? Would you vaccinate your child against chickenpox?

Secretary Robert Kennedy (01:02:28):

Again, I don't want to give advice. I can tell you in Europe they don't use the chickenpox vaccine specifically because the preclinical trial shows that when you inoculate the population for chickenpox, you get shingles in older people, which is more dangerous.

Mark Pocan (01:02:44):

Just one last one, just a yes or no please, if we could. Polio.

Secretary Robert Kennedy (01:02:48):

Polio. Again, I don't want to be giving advice-

Mark Pocan (01:02:51):

Okay, that's fair. No, that's fair. Like I said, I was not doing it as a gotcha. I was just, I thought it could be helpful if … Okay, so let me ask this on the 988 hotline. In your budget, you have eliminated, there was a special button you could press for LGBTQ+ youth. I'm an openly gay man. I deal with a lot of organizations that deal with this. You know the suicide rate among LGBT youth is four times nationally the rate of other youth. This is one where I hope that we could try to, like Chuck asked, work together to try to see if we could have a conversation about not eliminating this, because unfortunately, because of the bullying that's out there, because of honestly adults bullying, both in Congress and state legislators, these kids are often at unique risk and having that specific button they can push helps them to be able to get that service. Is that something we could talk about? At least trying to-

Secretary Robert Kennedy (01:03:46):

I'm happy to talk to you about it and I love the way that you approach this in a way that rather than attacking me is reaching out. And I'd love that from other Democrats because I think we have a lot to talk about. As you know, and I like that you just-

Mark Pocan (01:04:02):

Because I am short on time.

Secretary Robert Kennedy (01:04:03):

The 988 line was created by President Trump. He believes strongly in it. The reason he removed that button is because we don't want to isolate different demographics and polarize our country. Everybody on that line is trained in cultural sensitivities.

Mark Pocan (01:04:20):

Sure. I gotcha. I just would love to talk to you, because I think this is a unique one and I respect that. We can have a conversation.

Secretary Robert Kennedy (01:04:27):

I'm happy to talk to you. You can pick [inaudible 01:04:27]-

Mark Pocan (01:04:27):

Last one, just because I'm down to 22 seconds. I lost a little time there. Medicare Advantage. I know the Trump administration's going after waste, fraud and abuse. This is a program we get a lot of constituent complaints on. It costs more than Medicare. It was intended to find savings. It doesn't. In fact, I think the current estimate is 80 billion in overpayments have gone to private insurers. Are you committed to, one, going after those overpayments? And, two, if Medicare Advantage isn't more cost-effective, would we have a conversation about either eliminating the program or making it more effective?

Secretary Robert Kennedy (01:04:59):

Medicare Advantage, I mean, I definitely want to go after the waste, fraud and abuse in the private sector. There's 30 million people who want Medicare Advantage. I have Medicare Advantage. It works very well for me. I like it, I love it.

Mark Pocan (01:05:14):

It costs more and that's the point. It does.

Secretary Robert Kennedy (01:05:16):

I mean, I think our administrative costs are still far less than private industry.

Mark Pocan (01:05:21):

But it costs more than Medicare and that's my point. So that's all I was trying to-

Secretary Robert Kennedy (01:05:24):

But the services are much better.

Mark Pocan (01:05:27):

Okay. Another thing if we can talk about in continued conversation.

Secretary Robert Kennedy (01:05:29):

Okay, [inaudible 01:05:30]-

Mark Pocan (01:05:29):

I am sincere about wanting having a working relationship with you, Mr. Secretary. Thank you.

Secretary Robert Kennedy (01:05:33):

Thanks.

Mark Pocan (01:05:34):

Appreciate it.

Mr. Aderholt (01:05:34):

Ms. Bice.

Ms. Bice (01:05:36):

Thank you Mr. Chairman and thank you Mr. Secretary for being with us this morning. I first want to address a comment that was made by the ranking member earlier as it relates to getting the president's budget out. Just a reminder of that, when President Biden was elected, he did not send out his first presidential budget until May 28th of 2021. So giving some grace to a new administration I think is warranted. I want to take a minute to highlight the Oklahoma Medical Research Foundation, or, for short, OMRF. OMRF was chartered nearly 79 years ago and started out with 18 scientists on staff. They now have more than 475 scientists.

Secretary Robert Kennedy (01:06:18):

Which?

Ms. Bice (01:06:19):

It's the Oklahoma Medical Research Foundation. And I've actually given your team some information. Last month I was proud to attend a ribbon cutting for their new biomedical data sciences center, which will provide computing and data analysis capabilities to support scientists in researching very important areas including heart disease, cancer, and autoimmune diseases. This center cements OMRF as a leader in research methods and as a hub for collaboration in my district. It is important that OMRF continue their partnership with HHS in their research to expand life expectancy and healthcare outcomes across the nation. The impact that OMRF has had on Oklahoma and the country is really immeasurable. It ranged from certainly economic impacts to healthcare advancements, community engagement. The positive impacts are endless. And I want to mention them because I want to make sure that we're investing in the right things.

(01:07:24)
Like you and President Trump, I am focused on reducing the prevalence of chronic diseases. And the discoveries that they have made over the last many years have produced three life-changing drugs. Most recently in 2019, the FDA approved the first targeted therapy to treat sickle cell disease. And this is based on discoveries by OMRF researchers.

(01:07:47)
The point being here, Mr. Secretary, OMRF has been crucial in advancing research and treatment of chronic and rare diseases for millions. And they take pride in being one of seven NIH Autoimmune Centers of Excellence. And I hope you and your team will continue to work with OMRF so they can continue the positive impact in Oklahoma and across the country to make America healthy again.

(01:08:13)
That being said, in order for the US to maintain its lead in biotechnology, we need to ensure that the US continues to be the country of choice for best and brightest in the field. What will HHS do to help attract biotech researchers?

Secretary Robert Kennedy (01:08:29):

Well, we spend already, at this juncture, 70% of the research funding in the world on biotech and biomedical research is coming from my agency. And we understand that it's our aspiration that the United States remain the hub of biotechnology around the globe. We need to change some of the FDA policies to give a faster track for biotechnologies to get approved. We're working on that now. We're trying to reform phase three studies, for example, which are the longest, the most expensive, to do a lot of those functions by AI. We phased out, we're phasing out most animal studies at NIH and FDA, which again is a very expensive part of the process, because we can accomplish a lot of those goals on safety and efficacy with AI technologies. We brought the best AI developers in the country into HHS. Nothing like this has ever happened before. People walking away from billion-dollar concerns to come and work for us to transform our agency into a central hub for AI on the globe.

Ms. Bice (01:09:55):

Can you also-

Secretary Robert Kennedy (01:09:57):

And a lot of that, those changes are designed to make it easier and faster to get biotechnology to market.

Ms. Bice (01:10:06):

Perfect. Can you talk a little bit about the changes at NIH in particular? I know that there's been a lot of conversation around that, certainly streamlining is part of that. But can you talk a little bit more about what your vision is for NIH moving forward?

Secretary Robert Kennedy (01:10:17):

When I was a kid, NIH was the premier gold standard scientific institution in the world. Over the years, it was captured by industry and by, I think, a kind of ossification that happened at NIH because of the longevity of some of the leadership there. And there was a tremendous amount of corruption. And part of that corruption is we now have the CIA, the FBI, the Department of Energy and the Department of State all saying that the COVID-19 pandemic came out of research that was then sent over to China and that was the end point. We also have the sickest people in the world. NIH with the best science is supposed to be protecting, we should be the healthiest people in the world.

(01:11:09)
We're switching the trajectory so that we're going to really focus narrowly on chronic disease, ending the chronic disease epidemic. And then we're going to make sure that the science cannot be corrupted, that every scientific study is replicated, that the raw data for those studies is published, that the peer review for those studies is published. And we're going to focus on making sure that we get to younger scientists rather than the old boys network.

(01:11:38)
And I could talk to you about scientific corruption all day long, about horror stories that we know have happened within NIH. One of those, probably the worst, is the amyloid plaque scandal. For 20 years, because of utter corruption and fraud, we were directing Alzheimer's research to one hypothesis and any other hypothesis was shut down. We should have the cure for Alzheimer's today. We don't have it purely because of corruption at NIH.

Mr. Aderholt (01:12:06):

Ms. Frankel.

Secretary Robert Kennedy (01:12:07):

We are going to have it quick.

Mr. Aderholt (01:12:08):

Ms. Frankel.

Ms. Bice (01:12:08):

Thank you, Mr. Secretary.

Ms. Frankel (01:12:11):

Thank you Mr. Chair. Thank you. Welcome, Mr. Secretary. Before I ask my questions, I just want to make this statement. Draconian abortion restrictions are killing and maiming women and that is a tragedy. You don't need to respond to that. I want to thank you for being here. I just want, I'm going to try to ask my questions as kindly as possible. Do not take them personally. In the past I've believed-

Secretary Robert Kennedy (01:12:35):

I will take your kindness personally.

Ms. Frankel (01:12:38):

Okay, well whatever. What do they say? If you can't take a joke, don't go into politics. So let me start by saying in the past I have believed very strongly in the mission of the Department of Health Human Services. Funding this department should be one of our highest priorities because if it's run correctly, it has the power to save lives, advance life-changing research, and protect the health and well-being of our families, especially our most vulnerable, our children, our seniors.

(01:13:07)
But to be straightforward as this, my colleagues know, in other words, my, my, my. I am deeply wary of giving $1 to this administration under the current leadership, especially because it seems to be a disregard of science, and most importantly, ignoring the body of government that appropriates funding, that's us, the Congress. In just a few short months, we've seen a level of chaos and destruction. I compare it to a tornado hitting a populated community. Without the consent of Congress, which appropriated funds, with Elon Musk's chainsaw, medical research has been gutted, clinical trials have been halted, billions of research grants have been yanked without warning, preventative health programs, those that keep people healthy and out of hospitals, have been slashed to the bone.

(01:13:59)
And I'm from Florida where we have one of the largest senior populations in the country. And I'm particularly alarmed, Alzheimer's cancer, heart disease. These are not abstract concerns. Research has been stopped. These are everyday fears of millions of Americans, including my own constituents. And so we've seen the firing of thousands of scientists and other professionals, all this to give tax breaks to our healthiest, healthiest? Our wealthiest citizens, who are also probably our healthiest citizens. And to me that is unconscionable and dumb.

(01:14:37)
So this should not be a partisan issue really, because doesn't matter what political party you are, people want to and should be healthy. But the Trump administration, ideological dismantling the republican infrastructure must go in a different direction for me to vote for your budget.

(01:14:57)
Now I have a few questions for you. I think you said that the decision for all these cuts was done by a varied amount of people. Were any of the cuts made before you were sworn into office? Were you handed … do you remember that? Were people fired before you was … Well, what do you say?

Secretary Robert Kennedy (01:15:21):

I think some, but I can't tell you.

Ms. Frankel (01:15:24):

Okay, let me ask you this. Was any member of Congress or anyone on this committee consulted before the cuts were made? And could you tell me who you talked to here?

Secretary Robert Kennedy (01:15:35):

I mean, I stayed pretty close touch with Bill Cassidy during-

Ms. Frankel (01:15:39):

Okay, well, I'm asking you if anybody here, because you're here-

Secretary Robert Kennedy (01:15:42):

Oh, here?

Ms. Frankel (01:15:42):

You're asking us for money. We appropriated the funds. Did you talk to any of us, Democrat or Republican? You know what, there actually some very bright Republicans. I will say that. On both sides of the aisle. So the answer to that question is no. So your decisions, were they based on merit or generated by an algorithm? Somebody, Elon Musk, computer and say, "Okay, just make 20% cuts." Do you know if that happened?

Secretary Robert Kennedy (01:16:10):

I mean, I disagree with your entire characterization. It was like the recitation of a narrative that everybody knows out there and it's the Democratic Party narrative-

Ms. Frankel (01:16:20):

Well, I'm just asking you a question.

Secretary Robert Kennedy (01:16:21):

… and it's just not true. We weren't cutting thousands of scientists. We weren't cutting-

Ms. Frankel (01:16:25):

I'm reclaiming my time.

Secretary Robert Kennedy (01:16:27):

… clinical trial. I mean everything, you said was essentially-

Ms. Frankel (01:16:29):

Okay.

Secretary Robert Kennedy (01:16:29):

… dishonest.

Ms. Frankel (01:16:30):

All right. That's my [inaudible 01:16:32].

Secretary Robert Kennedy (01:16:31):

And don't take that personally.

Ms. Frankel (01:16:33):

Don't take it personally. Mr. Secretary, how many employees have been let go so far?

Secretary Robert Kennedy (01:16:38):

Excuse me?

Ms. Frankel (01:16:39):

How many employees have been let go so far from your-

Secretary Robert Kennedy (01:16:43):

About 10,000 left, took the fork in the road, and about 10,000 more.

Ms. Frankel (01:16:49):

And how many are on administrative leave now, waiting to be fired in June?

Secretary Robert Kennedy (01:16:54):

That would be the second 10,000.

Ms. Frankel (01:16:56):

Okay. And are they currently being paid?

Secretary Robert Kennedy (01:16:58):

Yes.

Ms. Frankel (01:16:58):

So they're being paid to do nothing?

Secretary Robert Kennedy (01:17:00):

Well, a lot of them are supposed to be coming in still.

Ms. Frankel (01:17:03):

But they're coming in to do nothing because they're not allowed to work.

Secretary Robert Kennedy (01:17:06):

No, no, no. We want them working.

Ms. Frankel (01:17:08):

Are you empowered to reverse these decisions?

Secretary Robert Kennedy (01:17:12):

Yes.

Ms. Frankel (01:17:12):

You are. Okay. And how was the 15% indirect research cost cap decided?

Secretary Robert Kennedy (01:17:17):

15%?

Ms. Frankel (01:17:18):

Resear- … There's now a 15%-

Secretary Robert Kennedy (01:17:24):

That's pretty much about two to three points above industry standards. So we were just … I mean if you're the Gates Foundation and you give a scientific grant to Stanford, you're giving them a 10% indirect research.

Ms. Frankel (01:17:38):

So you based this on the Gates Foundation?

Secretary Robert Kennedy (01:17:40):

Or the Rockefeller Foundation, all of the other foundations that give to biomedical research.

Ms. Frankel (01:17:46):

[inaudible 01:17:45] one more question.

Secretary Robert Kennedy (01:17:46):

Ask me a question but you won't, let me answer it, Congress-

Ms. Frankel (01:17:49):

You've done very well. Very, very well. I just want to know, are you going to … can we trust you? If we put money into the budget for you, you're going to spend it the way we've directed it?

Secretary Robert Kennedy (01:18:04):

Yes.

Ms. Frankel (01:18:04):

Really?

Secretary Robert Kennedy (01:18:05):

That's what the law requires.

Ms. Frankel (01:18:06):

Okay, I thank you. I yield back.

Mr. Aderholt (01:18:09):

Mr. Moore.

Mr. Moore (01:18:12):

Thank you Mr. Chairman and thank you Secretary Kennedy for being here. So yesterday we had good news in West Virginia. I want to thank you and your team for working with the West Virginia delegation and especially my office to bring back NIOSH, the facility in Morgantown. This facility and the programs it administers their absolutely critical to West Virginia and to our nation's coal industry. Mr. Secretary, my understanding is that the 111 employees at NIOSH in Morgantown were reinstated earlier this week. Is that correct?

Secretary Robert Kennedy (01:18:51):

I reinstated 328 employees at NIOSH. About a little over a third of them were in Morgantown, and then about a third in Cincinnati, and the World Trade Center Group I also reinstated.

Mr. Moore (01:19:10):

Well, thank you for that. And the Black Lung Screening Program and the Coal Workers' Health Surveillance Program are particularly important to West Virginia. My understanding is that the Coal Workers' Health Surveillance Program at NIOSH will be fully reinstated. Is that correct?

Secretary Robert Kennedy (01:19:29):

Yes. The program will continue to function with continuity.

Mr. Moore (01:19:34):

That's great. And thank you for that very much. And Mr. Secretary, it's my understanding that the programs for occupational safety and testing, like the respirator, pardon me, testing programs, will also be fully operational again. Is that accurate?

Secretary Robert Kennedy (01:19:51):

Yes, that's accurate.

Mr. Moore (01:19:53):

Very good. Well, thank you so much for working with my office on that. As I stated, that's critically important to our coal miners and their safety and the work that they're doing, which is hazardous but very important to our country. And lastly, I do want to … and see, I'm not going to take a lot of time here, Mr. Chairman. So I do want to thank you for visiting my children's school, their Catholic school there in Martinsburg, West Virginia, with our governor recently. My daughter was there on stage with you, one of my kids. And we had a great announcement there as it relates to food dyes. And thank you for being there and being supportive of us and also just your generational service to this country.

(01:20:31)
I'd be remiss if I didn't mention my close family friend who passed away just a few years ago, who was your father's campaign manager in the state of West Virginia when he was running for president, who obviously left a huge impact on our state. Thank you for all the work you're doing to make America healthy again. We obviously need the help in West Virginia and thank you for all the support that you've come into the state, helped us support these programs that we're trying to bring back our folks to a healthy lifestyle and path. Thank you so very much for everything you're doing for this country and for West Virginia.

Secretary Robert Kennedy (01:21:04):

Thank you, Congressman. I've spent a lot of my career in West Virginia and my family has deep roots there. My uncle, President Kennedy, would not have been president had it not been for the people of West Virginia. And that primary was the most critical primary. And Wisconsin was the second one in 1960. And he always reminded us of that. And I don't think any member of my family has ever forgotten and it's a joy for me to be able to spend time in your state.

Mr. Moore (01:21:36):

Well, thank you so much for that. There's a lot of great books written, by the way, on that primary in West Virginia, so thank you so very much, Mr. Secretary.

Mr. Aderholt (01:21:45):

Ms. Watson Coleman.

Ms. Watson Coleman (01:21:48):

Thank you, Chairman, Mr. Secretary. Few things enrage me more than the racist attacks I see this administration carrying out by embarking on an ignorant crusade to rid the government of any programs that are working to improve the lives of Black Americans. The administration has moved to ban the words, "black", "race", "bias", "minority", "oppression," "prejudice", "discrimination", "disparity," and "racism". Any grant application on federal programs that include these words had them immediately stripped. It is painfully clear to me that in doing this, this administration that you work with and work for is attempting to legitimize racial discrimination. And that, sir, is a moral disgrace.

(01:22:38)
It is not woke to improve the health and well-being of Black people who are despairingly impacted by just about every health issue. It should not be controversial to make right a healthcare system that was not built to help people like me, to take my concerns, my pain, my health very seriously in this country. Black women die from childbirth complications at a higher rate in this country than any other high-income country. And last year where there was overall maternal deaths dropping in this country, well, Black women maternal deaths rose. This sickens me and it tells me that our government has so much more than we must do to focus on improving the lives of Black women, not less.

(01:23:34)
Your decision and justifications are damning and troubling, particularly for destructive impacts your choices and benefits will have on poor minority people. So tell me, sir, how will eliminating minority health offices, how will eliminating initiatives and programs across the department that were created to look at the disparity in healthcare and the need to give greater attention to the fact that Black folks experience in healthcare was very damaging, was very different? How exactly will HHS banning the words that we use to describe ourselves make us healthier?

Secretary Robert Kennedy (01:24:25):

Congressman, President Trump's vision of this country is the same as Martin Luther King's, that we should have colorblind administration. President Trump is deeply concerned about the maternal health crisis and the fact that Black mothers are more likely to die in childbirth. 2.6 times, 260% more likely to die-

Ms. Watson Coleman (01:24:49):

Excuse me, sir, let me reclaim my time because I don't need this rhetoric about Donald Trump and the lie that he cares about me and Black people. What I want to know is the proposals-

Secretary Robert Kennedy (01:25:00):

Isn't it your question, Congresswoman?

Ms. Watson Coleman (01:25:01):

I'm reclaiming my time, sir. Reclaiming it. I want to know specifically how do you intend to address those disparities and to overcome those disparities as it relates to Black health in this country with the changes that you've decided are important or someone has decided for you? I don't know. With your department specifically, sir.

Secretary Robert Kennedy (01:25:30):

I've spent a lifetime working on those priorities and I continue to do so. We have eight divisions, eight programs for minority health at HHS. We've closed one of those offices. We're maintaining the other seven. We have 42 programs for maternal health. We're going to close a couple of them and consolidate them. We're going to still spend $1.7 billion a year. The commitment is there. We're just reorganizing.

Ms. Watson Coleman (01:25:58):

Okay. You know what? The impact of reorganization is something that I shall continually ask you to show me. So please let me warn you now.

Secretary Robert Kennedy (01:26:09):

I welcome those inquiries.

Ms. Watson Coleman (01:26:10):

And I don't want rhetoric, I want numbers. The other thing that really troubles me, sir, is LIHEAP. It is a program specifically to address the needs of low-income and minority families as it relates to heating and even air conditioning. Why? Why, why, why? And what is your rationale for eliminating that program specifically? Why, why, why?

Secretary Robert Kennedy (01:26:41):

I'm very committed to LIHEAP. My brother ran a low-

Ms. Watson Coleman (01:26:45):

I don't care about your past. I care about your functioning in this department, in this administration right now in response to this question.

Secretary Robert Kennedy (01:26:58):

My time has expired.

Ms. Watson Coleman (00:00):

Ms. Watson Coleman (01:27:00):

Oh, well then so has your legitimacy. I yield back.

Mr. Moolenaar (01:27:11):

Mr. Secretary, thank you for being with us and I don't know if you want to follow up on any of that.

Secretary Robert Kennedy (01:27:17):

I'd be happy to.

Mr. Moolenaar (01:27:18):

Okay, feel free.

Secretary Robert Kennedy (01:27:20):

As I was saying, I'm very conscious of the importance of LIHEAP to poor people all across this country. My brother ran a low-cost nonprofit fuel company for most of his life that provides a low-cost fuel to people in New England. I've had many, many people come up to me and said, "My life was saved because of that." I talked to Buu Nygren, who's the president of Navajo Nation when I visited about three months ago and he said, "Cuts to LIHEAP will end up in killing people." so I understand the importance of this. I think OMB's rationale was that President Trump's energy policy is going to reduce dramatically the cost of energy in this country, and if that happens, then LIHEAP is just another subsidy to the oil industry. If it doesn't happen, then Congress is welcome and they should appropriate the money for LIHEAP and I will spend it. I already allocated $400 million from LIHEAP during the last hundred days and I will continue to do though and get that funding to the people who need it in this country if fuel costs do not go down.

Mr. Moolenaar (01:28:36):

Thank you for that reassurance. Mr. Chairman, I want to submit an article for the record here a minute and I'll refer to it, but last month the National Security Commission on Emerging Biotechnology concluded in its report to Congress that the Chinese Communist Party seeks to dominate the global biotechnology industry so that other countries, including the United States, are dependent on the channels it controls.

(01:29:06)
China's already deeply embedded in the United States' critical biotechnology supply chains, including those for life-saving medicines. And as you know, Secretary, China has a history of weaponizing supply chain dependencies for critical goods and medicines against countries. For example, in March 2020, following the arrival of COVID-19 from China onto the American homeland, the CCP's mouthpiece, Xinhua News, published a commentary proposing to throw the United States into a sea of coronavirus. And that's what I'd like to submit for the record, Mr. Chairman. I request unanimous consent.

Speaker 1 (01:29:45):

Yeah, no objection.

Mr. Moolenaar (01:29:47):

Would you agree, Mr. Secretary, that overt reliance on the CCP in the US biotech and health ecosystem poses a threat, and that we should be developing independent supply chains to protect the health and well-being of Americans so that we reduce our reliance on China for critical medicines in their active pharmaceutical [inaudible 01:30:08]?

Secretary Robert Kennedy (01:30:08):

Yeah, absolutely. And this is a priority for me and for this administration. China does not spend its biomedical research money on DEI or on other issues. They're directly and narrowly focused on creating dominance across the globe. We saw the problem with supply chain control by the Chinese during COVID. And also the Chinese have a specific program called the Thousand Talents program that is designed to steal US IP and technology and we have facilitated that at NIH, funding Chinese scientists with contracts that don't require them even to report their science back to our country, but they give it directly to Chinese military scientists on bioweapons research, and we gave them the technology for it. This is how out of control NIH was under my predecessors.

(01:31:09)
We are working very, very hard and successfully to bring production home. I've met repeatedly with Eli Lilly, which is now building nine facilities, nine factories in this country, including for essential medicines, the ingredients, essential ingredients for those medicines. We are regularly meeting with all the other pharmaceutical CEOs and we've told them this is our priority. We want to produce all the parts of all the essential medicines here in the United States. And we have already launched a program to do that and it's already very, very successful.

Mr. Moolenaar (01:31:46):

Thank you, Mr. Secretary. And then on the issue of medical countermeasures, I wondered if you could talk about challenges facing BARDA, the Strategic National Stockpile and how Congress can help you overcome any challenges in that arena.

Secretary Robert Kennedy (01:32:04):

BARDA, we are redirecting BARDA so that it's going to do gold standard research. BARDA has been very successful in the past. It produced over I think 103 FDA licensed drugs or protocols or medical devices for national emergencies. We run the National Stockpile, which has $17 billion worth of supplies. Some of those supplies are misaligned and we need to do a better job and we're going to do that at NIH to make sure that we are prepared for all emergencies, including radiological, chemical, and biological emergencies. And I would love to meet to work with you Congressman, on helping us to achieve those goals.

Mr. Moolenaar (01:32:52):

Wonderful. And then finally a couple of things. One is I want to compliment you on your commitment to public service and the way you've responded with grace towards people who have opposed some of your political views, including some of your family members. And I've followed that. I want to really highlight the fact that your Make America Healthy Again, has really put this in the spotlight in these chronic diseases and especially starting with children. And nutrition, healthy lifestyles. I know our community health centers in my district, which is a rural district, want to work with you on those goals. What can we do to promote this with young children, healthy lunches, all sorts of areas where local communities can partner with you in this effort?

Secretary Robert Kennedy (01:33:49):

We are about to reissue the dietary guidelines and we're going to do it very quickly. We have until January, but we're going to do it. I think we'll have it done even before August. And we took the Biden guidelines, which were 453 pages long and were clearly written by industry that are incomprehensible driven by the same industry capture and those carnal impulses that put fruit loops at the top of the food pyramid and we are changing that. So we're going to have four-page dietary guidelines that tell people essentially eat whole food, eat the food that's good for you, that's going to drive changes in the school lunch programs. And we're going to need your help to make sure we can get good school lunches to Head Start. I've been touring these Head Start facilities. Everything they eat is in a package and it is just loaded with sugar and with chemicals. We're poisoning this generation. 800,000 kids, the poorest kids in our country, and we're starting them out with this count against them, with diabetes, pre-diabetes. 38% of our youth now are diabetic or pre-diabetic. That was zero when I was a kid.

Speaker 1 (01:35:02):

Ms. Dean.

Secretary Robert Kennedy (01:35:02):

Anybody thinks that we did gold standard medicine in this country from these institutions, look at our children, they're the sickest children in the world. Lauro, you say that you, excuse me, Congressman DeLauro, you say that you've worked for 20 years on getting food dye out. Give me credit. I got it out in a hundred days.

Rosa DeLauro (01:35:26):

I'll give you that credit.

Secretary Robert Kennedy (01:35:27):

All right, so let's work together and do something that we all believe in, which is have healthy kids in our country for God's sake.

Speaker 1 (01:35:34):

Ms. Dean.

Secretary Robert Kennedy (01:35:38):

We can all do that together. There's no such thing as Republican children or Democratic children. There's just kids and we should all be concerned with them.

Mr. Moolenaar (01:35:45):

Thank you, Mr. Secretary.

Speaker 1 (01:35:45):

Ms. Dean.

Madeline Dean (01:35:48):

Mr. Secretary. Madeline Dean, Suburban Philadelphia. Thank you for being here. I want to read the very first sentence of your written testimony, which you have submitted. "The mission of the Department of Health and Human Services, HHS, is to enhance and protect the health and well-being of the American people." And we are here to analyze the 2026 budget request as the chairman points out. But I also want to take a look at what the ranking member has taken a look at, which is the cuts going on right now to that which has already been appropriated. We have to really keep a clear line here between what's your proposal for '26 and what is going on right now against the legislation that we have passed and that has been signed into law.

(01:36:35)
I have to tell you that I'm more interested in substance than slogans. I'm getting a little lost in the MAGA. The MAHA. Now there's AHA. I don't know where we're going with this. I want to talk about the substance. And in this case, something very personal to me is the issue of addiction and mental health. And I know that you care deeply about these issues. I know you have been honest about your own recovery, your own struggle with addiction. In my family, my middle son Harry is now 12 and a half years in recovery from opioid addiction. It was a long road. It was a hard road in active addiction. You know how difficult it is and it's difficult to bring a family member back. I give Harry great credit. He now works in the area of addiction.

(01:37:24)
That's why I'm very, very worried about what is going on with SAMHSA. If you take a look at the data, the numbers, we were getting somewhere. Two years ago, three years ago, we were losing 110,000 people a year to overdose. That's 300 people a day. I call that a jetliner a day of souls crashing to this country. Just last year, the second half of '23 and the first half of '24, 12 months, that number went down 27% to 81,000 deaths of overdose. Don't let me minimize 81,000 deaths. That's still 220 people a day, today, tomorrow, yesterday, 365 days a year, but a 27% reduction in overdose deaths in this country. Overdose is stealing a generation in this country. So why in God's name are we shuttering SAMHSA?

Secretary Robert Kennedy (01:38:25):

We are not shuttering SAMHSA. I share your concerns and I am anxious to work with you on this problem. I'm fully committed to it because of my own history. I lost a brother to overdose. I lost one of my nieces during the pandemic to overdose. Like every family in this country has somebody that was lost. As you point out, we were losing I think two, three years ago, 106,000 American kids. It's double the number that we lost during the 20-year Vietnam war and we ought to be applying this-

Madeline Dean (01:39:01):

Why the cuts to SAMHSA? And why are you shifting?

Secretary Robert Kennedy (01:39:03):

We're not shuttering SAMHSA. We are still running 500 addiction centers.

Madeline Dean (01:39:08):

You've already cut SAMHSA, and the budget proposal is to shutter it and shift it to an AHA program, which I don't know what AHA means.

Secretary Robert Kennedy (01:39:16):

To shift it to the Administration for Healthy America.

Madeline Dean (01:39:21):

How is that-

Secretary Robert Kennedy (01:39:21):

We're shifting a lot of the chronic disease programs out of CDC into a center that will address chronic disease.

Madeline Dean (01:39:29):

And you and I agree that addiction overdose is a public health epidemic in this country.

Secretary Robert Kennedy (01:39:35):

Yes.

Madeline Dean (01:39:36):

Then why would we, when we are finally seeing some success, bury that success, put it in an AHA program, which by the way, logically doesn't make any sense. We have to now rehire people and figure out what their roles will be within AHA? Why wouldn't we analyze the data that shows we just saved 20-plus-thousand lives in the course of one year? This matters in my district. I have buried way too many kids to overdose, to fentanyl poisoning by the way. You don't have to be an addict. You can just be poisoned by fentanyl. Why in God's name…? This administration wants to shutter it, we know that, and shift it into AHA. Why would you do that?

Secretary Robert Kennedy (01:40:19):

They don't want to shutter. What we want to do is we want to shift that function into a place where we're going to be able to administrate it more efficiently. And that's all.

Madeline Dean (01:40:27):

What analysis was done? Can you show us the study that led you to the decision, shutter SAMHSA, shift it, we call that shift and shaft in my old days as an appropriator in Pennsylvania, shift it over here, throw it in a block grant program and good luck? What's the analysis that you did that said whatever SAMHSA was doing with harm reduction, by the way, with making Naloxone available with training for Naloxone? I literally carry this with me every day. I want to normalize the life-saving capacity of Naloxone and you guys want to bury it in AHA.

Secretary Robert Kennedy (01:41:03):

Oh, we want to provide Naloxone, NARCAN. We want to make sure that addicts have every option.

Madeline Dean (01:41:08):

You're eliminating the training for that.

Secretary Robert Kennedy (01:41:10):

Suboxone to Methadone and to-

Madeline Dean (01:41:13):

Medicated treatment.

Secretary Robert Kennedy (01:41:13):

…12-step programs to inpatient, outpatient.

Madeline Dean (01:41:18):

You're zeroing them out.

Secretary Robert Kennedy (01:41:19):

We won 500 addiction centers. We're not going to stop doing that. My agency was still do it.

Madeline Dean (01:41:25):

Are you looking at-

Secretary Robert Kennedy (01:41:26):

It's shifting to a subdivision where we can operate it more efficiently with other chronic diseases.

Madeline Dean (01:41:34):

But do you realize that-

Secretary Robert Kennedy (01:41:34):

EDC is going to do infectious disease, which is why we created it. It had mission creep and it was operating with-

Madeline Dean (01:41:40):

Mission creep as it was saving lives?

Secretary Robert Kennedy (01:41:43):

Mission creep-

Madeline Dean (01:41:43):

Mr. Secretary, please, I beg of you, talk to these families. You know these families. You are these families. Help us save more lives. Don't shift it and shaft it.

Speaker 1 (01:41:55):

Mr. Clyde.

Mr. Clyde (01:41:58):

Thank you Mr. Chairman and thank you Secretary Kennedy for appearing before our subcommittee today. As we consider the future of Americans' Health and the Department of Health and Human services, I appreciate the opportunity to discuss reforms that prioritize the health of our citizens while restoring transparency, accountability, and constitutional limits on federal power. For too long, federal health policy has been burdened by wasteful spending and ideological agendas undermining the scientific integrity and public trust. I'm encouraged by this administration's efforts to end the politicization of our health agencies and to bring common sense and accountability back to HHS.

(01:42:37)
I also support the Make America Healthy Again initiative, which addresses the consequences of misguided policies, poor nutrition standards, and harmful medical practices. Americans face record levels of obesity, chronic disease, mental illness, and pharmaceutical dependency. Secretary Kennedy, I commend your leadership in launching a commission to examine the root causes of these crises. But we cannot talk about restoring health without also confronting one of the most horrific scandals of our time. The trafficking and exploitation of children at our southern border, often under the watch of the very agency tasked with protecting them, HHS. The Biden administration dismantled critical safeguards turning the Unaccompanied Alien Children program into a pipeline for abuse. These are not bureaucratic oversights, they're instances of state-enabled child trafficking, and they must end.

(01:43:31)
I support the President's budget proposal to eliminate welfare benefits for illegal aliens and refocus the UAC program on its core mission, and that is protecting vulnerable children from trafficking, labor exploitation and abuse. No taxpayer dollar should fund these horrors, and yet the Biden administration made the federal government the final link in the chain of child trafficking. So I want to ensure the money that we spend on health policy is guided by constitutional principles, rigorous science, and the interests of the American people.

(01:44:06)
So my first question for you is, do you know approximately how many children over the last four years have gone missing or remain unaccounted for after being released by HHS? Have you looked into that?

Secretary Robert Kennedy (01:44:18):

The estimate, Congressman, from the office of the Inspector General, and it's considered a very low estimate, is 291,000 children missing.

Mr. Clyde (01:44:29):

291,000 children missing.

Secretary Robert Kennedy (01:44:30):

But the actual numbers are probably much higher than that. They could go up to half a million. If you look at the grand jury report from Florida, what happened to many of those children is just horrific. My predecessor, was deliberately employing a policy of speed over safety. So they waived all of the identification requirements for sponsors. Sponsors were not required to show valid identification. They were never fingerprinted, so we didn't know if they have criminal records. There was no DNA testing. So their claims that they were taking a family member were-

Mr. Clyde (01:45:20):

Dubious at best?

Secretary Robert Kennedy (01:45:22):

Yeah, they were dubious. And in Cleveland, according to the grand jury testimony, and the grand jury findings in Florida, there are so many episodes. One of them is a man in Cleveland who picked up a 16-year-old girl claiming to be her brother, raped her, impregnated her, put her in a home where she was being regularly raped of all men, and then went, got a 16-year-old boy who disappeared, and went back two other times for other children. This was happening again and again. One agency plays 592 children with 120 sponsors, 400 children were shipped to a town where there's a meatpacking plant in Kansas, 400 children. They had the common claim that they, the sponsors had to claim that those children lived in that town.

(01:46:19)
And we've seen fake ID where you have one guy who is photoshopped in with a whole bunch of different children and he's showing up and picking up these kids one at a time. The Biden administration knew about it. They saw the same pictures we did, and they did nothing. There's 160,000 help complaints that were never investigated. I've launched now a criminal task force. We've opened up 500 criminal investigations and already brought 80 to court. So we are going to try to find, do everything we can. We're working with DHS to find these children, but the federal government under the Biden administration became the biggest facilitator for child abuse probably in the history, certainly in the history of our country.

Mr. Clyde (01:47:08):

Well, thank you. I was going to ask you, how are you going to hold these contractors and officials accountable? But I think you answered that question already.

Secretary Robert Kennedy (01:47:15):

We're already doing fingerprinting on every sponsor. We're doing DNA testing on every sponsor. We're doing income testing on every sponsor, and we're doing valid ID testing. Nobody gets a kid without showing that they are a family member.

Mr. Clyde (01:47:29):

Thank you. And I see my time has expired, so I yield back. Thank you for that. Excellent work.

Speaker 1 (01:47:35):

Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Clyde. Mr. Harder.

Mr. Harder (01:47:38):

Thank you so much. Secretary Kennedy, I'd like to start by talking about your personal story. You've talked openly about your battle with addiction and I want to thank you for being so open about talking about your road to recovery. As you know, addiction is a real crisis. Tens of thousands of Americans died this year from overdoses. My community knows this all too well, and all of us have been to far too many funerals. So Secretary Kennedy, I'd like to start by just grounding us in the reality of what treatment like that actually looks like. As I understand it, you were 15 up until when you entered into an inpatient rehab facility. You credit the care you received there as a turning point. Do you have a sense of approximately how much money your family spent on your addiction treatment?

Secretary Robert Kennedy (01:48:27):

Well, I spent the money on my addiction treatment, and at that time the rehab was probably like $800 a day. I think today they're much higher than that, many of them.

Mr. Harder (01:48:42):

Yeah, I think that's right. My understanding is that the private rehab facility, like the one that you went to, would cost in today's dollar for that same treatment over $286,000 out of pocket just for addiction treatment that I think we can all agree, Republican and Democrat, is absolutely necessary to make sure that we're keeping our community safe. I bring this up-

Secretary Robert Kennedy (01:49:03):

There are, Congressman, there are many really gold star rehabs that do it for a tiny fraction, like 20 to $40,000 a month.

Mr. Harder (01:49:12):

There you go. I bring this up because in my community, the average salary is $40,000. So most folks in my community can't even afford 20 or $40,000 per month. And most of the folks in our area rely on public clinics that are mostly financed through Medicaid. About half of my district is on Medicaid, and the recent budget that is being discussed in the House right now would leave 50,000 people in my community without health insurance. So Secretary Kennedy, my question for you is why do you think that a community like mine doesn't deserve access to that same basic healthcare provided by Medicaid that you benefited from?

Secretary Robert Kennedy (01:49:54):

I do believe they do. I do believe that is the design of the Medicaid program.

Mr. Harder (01:50:01):

So do you disagree with the cuts that are being proposed for Medicaid right now?

Secretary Robert Kennedy (01:50:04):

No. The cuts, this is a, I don't know if you understand this or whether you're just mouthing the Democratic talking points. The cuts to Medicaid are for fraud, waste, and abuse. And I'll tell you what that means. It means that because of DOJE we were able to determine, and it's about 8 million people who would be affected, because of DOJE, we were able to determine that there are a million people who are claiming Medicaid from multiple states. That's illegal. It's theft. You're not allowed to do that. Or another million people who are collecting both under Obamacare and Medicaid.

Mr. Harder (01:50:44):

Secretary, that has nothing to do with the budget. That's actually being proposed in house.

Secretary Robert Kennedy (01:50:46):

These are the only cuts that are being made. These are the only cuts that are being made to Medicaid.

Mr. Harder (01:50:50):

That's not true.

Secretary Robert Kennedy (01:50:51):

Yes it is. There are another million illegal aliens. We announced a law yesterday. Yesterday, a rule yesterday. We're not going to pay illegal aliens anymore. And guess what Gavin Newsom did this morning? He said, "We're going to take all the illegal aliens off the California Medicaid rolls because the feds aren't paying for them anymore." So the compassion, and what he has-

Mr. Harder (01:51:13):

Secretary, let me focus you on the actual numbers of the budget that's being proposed. Secretary, I reclaim my time. I think what you are saying is absolutely inaccurate in terms of the 13 million Americans that will lose access to healthcare. Let me tell you, the folks in my district are not actually getting Medicaid in another state. They can't travel to get it in another state. The clinics that are providing that life-saving care are the last resort for folks in my area.

Secretary Robert Kennedy (01:51:35):

Let me tell you the last category. Last category is adults who are able-bodied, who refuse to look for a job, to volunteer, to get a job, or to show that they are in certain, or to take a part-time job.

Mr. Harder (01:51:56):

I reclaim my time. That is absolutely not true. The vast majority of folks in a community like mine who are on Medicaid are working. They want to work. People want to be able to make sure that they have-

Secretary Robert Kennedy (01:52:06):

Then they are in no danger of losing their Medicaid.

Mr. Harder (01:52:08):

That's just not true. We've seen in time after time, including in Arkansas and Florida and other states, that when you put more red tape… Yes, but we've seen this chapter before, when you put more red tape in front of people actually getting that life-saving care, you're going to prevent people from accessing health insurance and being able to go go see a doctor.

Secretary Robert Kennedy (01:52:27):

Medicaid is for poor children, it's for mothers, and it's for the disabled.

Mr. Harder (01:52:34):

It is. And 13 million of those people are going to lose health insurance if this budget becomes [inaudible 01:52:39].

Secretary Robert Kennedy (01:52:39):

They're already losing their health insurance because of all the able-bodied people who are not looking for jobs on Medicaid.

Mr. Harder (01:52:46):

Secretary, I'll just close by saying this. I hope that you remember the grace that was given to you during your darkest days, and I recommend that you come to a district like mine and stare at a single mom who has young kids who's at risk of losing her health insurance because of more red tape-

Secretary Robert Kennedy (01:53:01):

Where's your district, Congressman?

Mr. Harder (01:53:02):

Stockton, California, come on out. We'd love to have you, and I hope that you can actually explain why this program is going to make her life healthier and help with the actual outcomes that we're talking about, because I think that's a hard case to make.

Speaker 1 (01:53:20):

Dr. Harris.

Mr. Harris (01:53:23):

Thank you very much. Mr. Secretary, you're absolutely right. No pregnant woman or single mom who qualifies under traditional Medicare Medicaid is going to lose anything. This talking point is ridiculous. The million people who are committing absolute illegal fraud by being on Medicaid rolls in two separate states is a fraud and the insurance companies make a ton of money from it. You're absolutely right. We have a $2 trillion deficit. It's not sustainable, period. There are a lot of things I'd love to do. Believe me. You appreciate it. $2 trillion deficit is not sustainable. You're right. A lot of what you're doing is going back to pre-COVID levels. As a famous person on the other side of the aisle once said, "You never want a serious crisis to go to waste." And they didn't let COVID go to waste. We increased federal spending by 40% since after COVID.COVID is over. Let's go back to the old one. We have to look at every program.

(01:54:21)
Let me talk to you and we talked when we spoke a couple days ago about nutrition. Look, I'm a thousand percent behind you on nutrition. First, we have to agree that there's a problem. First thing is we can't get agreement that this country is sicker, not healthier. When I proposed that to the last director of NIH, there are arguments from the other side that that's not true. It's absolutely true, by every measure you can… Let's take life expectancy, the simplest measure, simplest easy-to-understand measure, you know life expectancy is going down.

(01:54:54)
Then let's look at the chronic disease, which are absolutely right. Whether you look at obesity, overweight, hypertension, cardiovascular disease, they're all gotten worse, not better, and almost all can be linked to nutrition. So I'm glad that you and the Secretary of Agriculture are going to support finally taking the Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program and put some meaning in the word nutrition.

(01:55:17)
Let me talk a little bit about the NIH because I think one of the most telling things about the NIH, which some people say should be called the National Institute of Disease, not National Institute of Health, because we study disease, but we're not keeping people healthier. When I wanted to hold a hearing with my other hat as the AG subcommittee chair, we called over to NIH to get an expert on nutrition. This should be pretty easy, right? They've probably got a million of them, right? No, they couldn't send someone over. Now, if I had to ask for an oncologist, they could have sent dozens. They would've sent the director of the division. They would've sent the director of the NIH over.

Mr. Harris (01:56:00):

And yet, it's pretty clear and you understand this, nutrition is linked to cancer too. We might need fewer oncologists if we had some better nutrition. And God bless you in what you're trying to do with that. That study out of Wash U in December that actually shows the link with high intake of fructose to the carcinogen, the lipid, and the lysophosphatidylcholines that are metabolized by humans from fructose that increase tumor growth. These are the kind of things we should be studying and linking it back to nutrition. So I will just ask you, when you envision what we're going to do on nutrition writ large to try to make us a healthier country, what do you think we have to look at? What are the first things we have to look at?

Secretary Robert Kennedy (01:56:49):

And that's a really good question, Congressman. What we need to be doing is NIH has done really good, and I talked to Congresswoman DeLauro last night and she said, "Okay, NIH has done all this great science so that we can cure cancers faster." And so, my question is it a great thing that you can now cure or treat colorectal cancer so only 50% rather than 100% of people die? Or should somebody be thinking about why are we getting colorectal cancer in children, which has never in the history of humanity happened before? It's now an epidemic.

(01:57:28)
There was nobody at NIH to answer those questions, nobody. No research was done on it. The etiology of all these chronic diseases were just buried because they didn't want to offend the large industries who were putting these poisons in our food and putting them in our pharmaceutical products. For some of these for some of these ingredients, we just need to let the public know and probably do labeling so that people can make their own choices. If you want to eat a Twinkie, if you want to drink a Coca-Cola, you should be able to do that. We're a free country. You ought to know that it may increase your cancer risk and that it may increase your risk for diabetes. And so, we're going to study each of these ingredients, starting with the most common ones, the greatest suspected culprits. And I'm going to tell them ones that are so bad they shouldn't be taken away, we're going to work with industry to get rid of them.

Mr. Harris (01:58:26):

Great idea.

Secretary Robert Kennedy (01:58:27):

The other ones we're just going to tell people so they can make an informed choice.

Mr. Harris (01:58:30):

I'm sure that if we add money back into the NIH budget, we should actually insist that it be nutrition spending. The only last thing I'll say just very briefly, Mr. Chairman, is that again, wearing my other hat from the ag side is that our farmers are worried that if we look at pesticides, as we should, that we just be careful that we work together to make sure that we don't cripple our agriculture economy. And I look forward to working with you on that. I yield back.

Secretary Robert Kennedy (01:58:57):

We cannot make America healthy again without the partnership with the American farmers. We cannot be putting them out of business, and they're already operating on razor-thin margins.

Mr. Aderholt (01:59:06):

Mr. Ellzey.

Congressman Jake Ellzey (01:59:07):

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you for being here, Mr. Secretary. I was a 20-year Navy veteran and I'm both a warrior and a father, so I'm also a protector. And four years ago I went down to the border of Texas when the mass wave of humanity came in from South and Central America. And I went down with the Texas Department of Public Safety and stood right on the edge of the water at the river there. And I watched a coyote bring a family, a so-called family across the water. I was powerless to do anything, although for my own self-protection, I was armed and certainly wanted to take action on this man that was trafficking human beings.

(01:59:48)
This family came across, at least I thought it was a family, a man and wife and two children. One of the kids didn't get out of the boat. And the Texas DPS trooper says, "You forgot one." Now why was this happening? It was because they were allowing families to come in undocumented if they brought someone in under the age of eight. I'm not going to relitigate the last four years. It's irrelevant at this point. All we've got now is 300,000 children that we know of, probably double that because you can't count ones that you don't encounter, missing in the United States of America. And evil exists in the world, and it exists in the realm of human trafficking and child sex trade, and they're in this country. And so, the Department of HHS, that was their responsibility to make sure that the sponsors were vetted. They didn't do so. We've addressed what you're doing now. What is out there? What capabilities do you have in coordination with other agencies to try to find these kids?

Secretary Robert Kennedy (02:01:03):

Well, we don't actually have at HHS enforcement capability. What we're doing is unprecedented, which is we're doing data sharing and we have a war room where we are doing everything we can to locate these children. And when we get close to locating them, we turn that information over to ICE and to DHS, and they have the capacity, enforcement capacity to actually find them. But we work together with them and we've got an extraordinary team in our war room in my building at HHS that is working 10-hour days to track down every single one of these kids and try to bring them back. A lot of them, it's going to be very, very difficult.

Congressman Jake Ellzey (02:01:51):

It sure is. I'm glad you're doing that because you can't just forget them. We've got a lot of big issues facing child health, but the idea that some of these kids just got handed over to people that we don't know and that they disappeared. And I remember being down on the border. I don't know what these folks did with this little girl. I have an idea, but I know we were finding them dead in ditches. And so, I'm glad that HHS is working with other agencies to do that. And as it's Police Week, I guarantee everybody on this Mall this week is willing to help out in any way they can to find these kids.

(02:02:26)
And I'd just like to follow up with, I've watched and you talked about lunches and how kids aren't being fed very well on processed foods. And I remember growing up in Perryton, Texas and my favorite people in school, because I hated school, was the lunch ladies. And they made the best food ever, and it was home-cooked meals. And I knew it was healthy because they weren't giving us sugary stuff, they were giving us home-cooked meals. And I went to lunch with my son a couple years ago, and everything they had was highly processed, frozen, and then heated up, and it was inedible. And so, I would love to see the federal government get out of making sure that everybody eats the same thing because we talked about the tribes too. Tribes can't eat the same thing everybody else does.

Secretary Robert Kennedy (02:03:11):

No.

Congressman Jake Ellzey (02:03:11):

So I want to go back to local control on figuring out what is best for the local kids in those schools, and then they cook those meals. And get the federal government out of determining what's good and what's edible and what's not, so I appreciate you.

Secretary Robert Kennedy (02:03:24):

Yeah. A hundred percent on board. We have a research capacity at FDA to give categories of food, and very simple, basic, don't eat anything that comes in a package. Don't eat anything with chemicals on it that you can't read. Don't eat anything with more than three ingredients in it. And sending that out and letting people solve the issue of what exactly makes sense in their locality.

Congressman Jake Ellzey (02:03:51):

Yes, sir. Thank you for your time. I yield back.

Mr. Aderholt (02:03:57):

Ms. Letlow.

Congresswoman Julia Letlow (02:03:57):

Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you so much, Secretary Kennedy for being here with us today. And I'm so grateful for your efforts to make sure our federal health system is laser-focused on creating a healthier, more prosperous America. And my home state of Louisiana has embraced the MAHA movement, including a lot of concerned mamas out there. I'm one of them, and I'm so eager to hear from you on how we can best support your mission moving forward.

(02:04:23)
And I'd love to talk about how we can work together to improve women's health research. As a woman, a mother, a member of Congress, I am deeply concerned about the long-standing gaps in research and care that affects women's health. I hear from women daily about how a simple blood test or a routine screening could have prevented debilitating cancers, stillbirths, preventable diseases, and the high price tag that comes with the treatments for these diseases.

(02:04:48)
In just my state this year, we can expect close to 30,000 new incidences of cancer including 4,230 new incidences of breast cancer and 210 new incidences of cervical cancer. Louisiana's 5th Congressional District already sits higher than the national average for breast cancer deaths, yet women are still underrepresented in clinical trials.

(02:05:08)
The unique biological health factors that impact women's health are too often an afterthought rather than a priority. We have made some progress with programs such as the CDC's National Breast and Cervical Cancer Early Detection Program, which has provided access to life-saving prevention and early detection services for women in underserved areas, and the Pregnant Women in Lactating Women Advisory Committee to address this gap in clinical research. But I know more work can be done. Secretary Kennedy, what specific actions will the Department be taking to build on these existing programs and ensure that research funding, policy direction, and implementation reflect the full scope of women's health needs?

Secretary Robert Kennedy (02:05:48):

Yeah. I want to thank you, Congresswoman, and also take note of the fact that one of the canards that has been widely reported in the mainstream Democratic Party press is that we terminated a 30-year woman's health study at NIH, which was reported initially in The New York Times the report was inaccurate, really badly inaccurate. We very strongly support that. Jay Bhattacharya, who is the director of NIH, actually has done a lot of his research on that database and we are going to continue that. We have 42 maternal health programs throughout the agencies. We're going to continue that commitment. That's a multi-billion-dollar commitment and we're going to continue it that. And I'd love to work with you directly to figure out what we can do more to make sure that we have great detection, that we have great diagnosis, early detection, and prevention.

Congresswoman Julia Letlow (02:06:57):

Thank you. I look forward to working with you on that. I also represent a largely rural district that covers 21 parishes in Louisiana, many of which are considered medical deserts. I hear from my constituents daily about the lack of access to regular and specialized care. My district is part of the Delta region, along the Mississippi River and within the Delta there are a number of types of cancers and chronic illnesses on the rise. And there seems to be little success in slowing the morbidity rates down. The 5th District also ranks worse than the national average in cardiovascular disease deaths, kidney disease and diabetes deaths. This is only one part of the long history of the Delta region having poorer health outcomes than the rest of the nation. Secretary Kennedy, what initiatives are the agency planning to implement to improve health outcomes in the Delta region? And how can Congress partner with you to ensure that these plans come to fruition for our rural healthcare deserts?

Secretary Robert Kennedy (02:07:48):

Congressman, this is a priority for me during this administration, and I made that commitment to many of the Senators who voted for my confirmation. It was probably the most commonly repeated concern, about rural health and the decline in opportunities in rural health.

(02:08:07)
We have programs at HRSA to increase personnel and frontline responders and frontline treatment personnel in those districts where there are chronic shortages of doctors and nurses who want to move to those areas. We are going to make sure to continue to support rural hospitals and healthcare centers.

(02:08:34)
We are going to dramatically revolutionize the availability of telehealth and AI so that people can avoid emergency rooms by getting treated at home. I looked at a technology yesterday that can accurately diagnose strep throat by telephone using your telephone camera with taking one picture of the inside of your throat. And the accuracy of that test is greater than a strep swab. And these are opportunities so you can prevent somebody from having to go to the emergency room and you could get them a prescription on-site. There are so many opportunities that are so exciting.

Congresswoman Julia Letlow (02:09:21):

Yes.

Secretary Robert Kennedy (02:09:21):

And we have just the right team in place to implement them and deploy them across the country: Dr. Oz, and we have Chris Klomp who came out of the tech industry, was integrating AI into all of our systems there. We're really going to revolutionize this agency.

Congresswoman Julia Letlow (02:09:39):

That's wonderful news. My time's expired. Thank you so much.

Mr. Aderholt (02:09:43):

Thank you. And I think we've covered all the… Every member has got a chance to ask a question, but before we do adjourn, I would like to recognize the Ranking Member Ms. DeLauro for any closing comments.

Ms. DeLauro (02:09:57):

Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. And first I would like to, on Congresswoman Dean's behalf, enter an article into the record.

Congresswoman Madeleine Dean (02:10:05):

Thank you, Ranking Member. I wanted to enter an article into the record on the topic of Medicaid and work. It is by the Kaiser Family Foundation. It is dated February 4th, I believe you have it at the desk. Understanding the intersection of Medicaid and work, unlike the chestnut, the bigoted chestnut that we see very often written that Medicaid recipients are not working, the data shows the vast majority of able-bodied people are working.

Mr. Aderholt (02:10:34):

Without objection, it'll be included.

Congresswoman Madeleine Dean (02:10:36):

Thank you.

Mr. Aderholt (02:10:36):

Ms. DeLauro.

Ms. DeLauro (02:10:38):

Thank you very much. Sorry Ms. Letlow left, but I think it's important to note that in the 2026 budget under CDC, the breast and cervical cancer program has been eliminated. I think that's important to understand for women's health. Also, Secretary Kennedy, you're committed to following the law and awarding congressionally appropriated funds in 2025. And please understand that we are in 2025, and we are under the continuing resolution, which is the 2024 budget. So it quite frankly should be an easy transfer to 2024 to 2025. But that is what is operative. That is the law of the land; not a suggestion, not a directive, a law of the land.

(02:11:27)
But the evidence suggests that you are cutting billions of dollars in funding right now. The evidence shows that you are withholding at least $2.7 billion in life-saving NIH research. And that is only midway through 2025. And based on the evidence, I believe, and the OMB Director has indicated that you are going to illegally impound billions of dollars of congressionally appropriated funding for NIH research in 2025.

(02:12:02)
To make matters worse, you are proposing to cut NIH funding by $20 billion in 2026. You do not have the authority to do what you are doing. Congressman Hoyer pointed out that very clearly and explicitly, you don't have the authority. This administration does not have this authority.

(02:12:27)
Your reorganizing of the NIH, you don't have the authority. That is in the jurisdiction of the United States Congress. You want to eliminate five agencies. You want to create a new agency. Once again, I don't mean to be repetitive, but I do mean to be repetitive. You do not have the authority to do any of that.

(02:12:51)
A couple of other areas I think are important. HHS makes medical decisions every day. You're making medical decisions every day. You're the Secretary of HHS. You have tremendous power over health policy, really horrified that you will not encourage families to vaccinate their children: measles, chicken pox, polio. Vaccines are one of the foundations of public health. Vaccines, yes, save lives. And the fact that the Secretary of Health and Human Services refuses to encourage children to be vaccinated is a tragedy. And we have already had two children in the United States who have died needlessly from measles. Let me also move forward. You talked about the NIH and the science of the NIH. And just very, very quickly, high-profile successes from NIH research: Human Genome Project, immunotherapy, CRISPR gene editing, sickle cell cure, vaccines for HPV, hepatitis, mRNA vaccines including the lifesaving Covid vaccines, artificial heart valves, DLP-1 medications for diabetes and weight management. One can look at and see what works or doesn't work, but you can't sit here and tell us that NIH has been a failure, and that the science and the people who have worked at the NIH have not made unbelievable, unbelievable discoveries to cure.

(02:14:14)
I have a question which had to do with NIOSH, and you don't have to answer this question, but I don't understand why Republicans get to call you to spare offices like NIOSH. Who do Democrats have to call? Is there a special phone number if I want to save tobacco prevention? Lead poisoning, 9 million children were lead poisoned in Flint, Michigan. 9 million kids. Okay? So tobacco prevention, lead poisoning, oral health. Who do we have to call to be able to get those things reinstated?

(02:14:45)
And finally, let me just say this to you, because there's been a discussion here. Well, on nutrition. I would just say to you that, look, I'm very, very big on nutrition, food safety. I've spent the last 20 or 25 years dealing with this issue. So I'm supportive of some of the areas that you have talked about. And by the way, the office of research at the NIH, they can only spend $1 million on research. This committee can provide them with a hell of a lot more money if we want them to do more on research.

(02:15:21)
A side issue on Medicaid with regard to young children, it is children, disabled, low-wage workers and seniors who are the beneficiaries of Medicaid. And that would appear to be really on the chopping block.

(02:15:37)
Mr. Chairman, I have just one more comment to make to you. The testimony with regard to unaccompanied children, spent a lot of time on that issue, a lot of time. Because by law, as you know, we have to accept unaccompanied kids. That's HHS's responsibility. You're right, there is an enforcement. But we have that responsibility to keep them safe, put them in the best set of circumstances.

(02:16:07)
I was chair of this committee during the first Trump administration, still outraged. I was horrified at the time to learn that Stephen Miller was directing border agents to separate children from their parents as a deterrent, as a deterrent to coming to the United States. Some of these children were taken away from their parents. They were less than five years old. Now there was about 4,600 kids separated from their families. That was in 2017, 2018. I had a conversation with Secretary Azar at the time. It was in my home, in my office with my grandson on my lap. And I said to him, "Do you have a list of the families and a list of the children so that they can be reinstated?" She assured me that they did. Mr. Secretary, it's 2025. 1,300 of those children are unaccounted for. Do we want to look for missing kids to get them to their parents? Let's start there. That was a tragedy of great proportions inflicted by the United States of America.

(02:17:27)
You have an unbelievable job. When we talk about HHS, it really is a cornerstone of what this country is all about and what we can do. We don't deal here with airplanes, with roads or bridges or helicopters. That's not what we do. What our job and your job is to save lives. And I would hope that you would take another look at what is being proposed. And I would say fight back, as I would ask my colleagues to fight back and say, "We can't do this. We can't eliminate some of these programs." The havoc that we are going to cause in dealing with research and cutting back on research is going to put lives at risk. You have an incredibly important job.

Mr. Aderholt (02:18:13):

Thank you, Ms. DeLauro.

Ms. DeLauro (02:18:13):

I think you can make the difference.

Mr. Aderholt (02:18:14):

Thank you.

Ms. DeLauro (02:18:16):

Please do.

Mr. Aderholt (02:18:17):

Thank you. Well, thank you Mr. Secretary for being here today. And let me say, I do think you bring fresh eyes. I think you bring a new perspective on public health and the overall state of our healthcare system in America. And I appreciate what you're doing to look into what is working and what is not working. And I think that's what's very much needed in this and not take everything as a status quo.

(02:18:42)
And so, I think we've had a very good hearing, had a very spirited hearing today. But I think we've covered a lot of topics and very happy that all the members got a chance to ask questions. I'm sure we could go on for a couple more hours, and I'd love to do a second round, but I know that you have another hearing I think you're scheduled this afternoon for. And so, you can take a break for a minute, maybe get some lunch, a healthy lunch.

Speaker 2 (02:19:12):

Mr. Chairman, would you yield for a question?

Mr. Aderholt (02:19:15):

Oh, he has got another hearing to go to, so I'm a little, and with that, we stand adjourned.

Speaker 2 (02:19:17):

Thank you.

Secretary Robert Kennedy (02:19:17):

Well done.